A bad workman blames his tools


#1

Have you ever heard that phrase before?

[RANT]
You know, I (as we all) do know that LW certainly has its shortcomings in some regards, and obviously has a fair bit of room for improvement. Yep, we’re all hoping to see something cool in LW8. I know I have a good list of stuff I’d love to see.

But more and more I can’t help but get the feeling that sometimes people are blaming this program (and any other program they use, for that matter) for the fact that they cannot actually produce anything worthwhile.

I mean, just look around you. I see plenty of LW artists producing plenty of cool stuff. And yet all the time I hear complaining about “this tool” and “that tool” and blah blah blah. The fact is that you can make a perfect human model using the Make Poly command, and the move tool. Sure it would take some time, but it just goes to show that making really good 3D models doesn’t mean you have to have tools that do everything for you. Sure it’s nice to have things which speed up your workflow, but in the end, it really comes down to whether or not you actually have any skill as an artist.

And I really can’t help but wonder if a lot of people who spend all their time bitching and complaining about everything are actually frustrated because they lack the skill to actually create anything worthwhile, and are complaining because they want more buttons to press that do stuff for them.

And to those people, I say: go use Bryce, or Poser, or some other program that does everything for you. Because you can complain all you want, bitch until you are blue in the face, but you will never get a tool in LW that makes up for a total and utter lack of artistic ability or 3D skills.
[/RANT]


#2

[sarcasm] Doesn’t sound like anyone in this forum. [/sarcasm]

cough cough


#3

And this thread isn’t aimed at anyone in particular, but rather towards the general attitude that has been here lately.

Like I said, I’m not saying that LW is perfect, because it certainly isn’t. But I am getting really bored of the constant stream of negativity we have here. If people are so unhappy with LW, there are loads of other options out there - even really great free ones.


#4

Its even printed in the lightwave manual.

“It is a poor artist that blames his tools”


#5

Just a random comment-

I completely and totally despise poser and bryce.

I entered the 3d portion of an art for high-schoolers earlier this year and some pic with a couple poser models won. Couldnt have taken more then 30 minutes. Bah.


#6

Originally posted by Raptor_dss
[B]Just a random comment-

I completely and totally despise poser and bryce.

I entered the 3d portion of an art for high-schoolers earlier this year and some pic with a couple poser models won. Couldnt have taken more then 30 minutes. Bah. [/B]

That’s my point really. Those programs are for people who don’t have the skills to create anything without pressing buttons that do everything for them.

And yeah, that kind of thing totally stinks. But at the end of the day, they don’t really have much satisfaction, since they didn’t push or pull any polys or sweat over UV maps or IK rigs :stuck_out_tongue:

Damn, I sound all elitist now. I’d better shut up now. :surprised


#7

Holy crap a forum mod trying to start a flame war?

I don’t blame my tools when I want better ones. Although I know when the tool isn’t the right one for the job. I don’t say that LW sucks but it hasn’t really been evolving as much as EVERYTHING else. If I wanted to just be in the fan club instead of staying up to speed I still be using the Amiga. I doubt you are posting this from a 150 bps modem.

“A bad workman blames his tools”

This seems to be quoted more and more by the LW fanbase. It should now be the Official Lightwave Excuse.


#8

So, I guess ILM and Weta should be using Poser and Bryce, since the tool doesn’t matter. I mean, clearly they’re great artists, so they should be able to make Gollum and the Hulk just using Poser. :rolleyes:

Get your heads out of the sand and get real. Ppl. buy these programs based on what they can do and how fast they can get them to their destination. It’s nice that the fanboys keep coming up with excuses for the lacking areas of their prefered tool, but I doubt you’re going to brainwash anyone but total noobs with that talk.

Sure, there are ppl. out there that do infact want totally automated tools, that require no work or creativity, but then there are the ppl. that want the tool(s) they use to become bette,r so they have less headaches and spend less time on tedious tasks and more time on being creative. You know you want the same exact thing, too. You can lie through your teeth all you want.

Just thought I’d put a little reality into what Leigh said. :slight_smile:


#9

I doubt you are posting this from a 150 bps modem

I’m on a 56k dialup :cry: But then again, no skill is needed to operate a modem (or any connection equipment for that matter), so that analogy is flawed.

I am not trying to start a flame war. I am trying to get people to look at the reasons for why they are complaining so much. People should know the difference between needing an equipment upgrade, and needing skills improvement.


#10

Originally posted by CIM
So, I guess ILM and Weta should be using Poser and Bryce, since the tool doesn’t matter.

I didn’t say the tool doesn’t matter, did I? I said that people need to check their reasons for complaining. You are taking what I said out of context. But I guess that was intentional.

What I am saying is that learning to use any 3D program requires effort, and if people are getting frustrated because they are just not progressing in WHATEVER program they are using, and then start bitching and complaining that it’s because the programs are all crap, then they are looking in the wrong place for a solution.

You can call me delusional or say I have a fanboy mentality - I really don’t care. I know where LW has it’s pitfalls, and there are many of them. The fact is that I am comfortable working in whatever 3D app I choose. People should stop blaming their own shortcomings on their software - if they don’t want to bother learning solid skills, then they should stop doing 3D, or should use something that does everything for them.

Don’t twist my words around and make it look like I am saying something else, CIM. And don’t call me a liar either - I certainly don’t appreciate it.


#11

hmm… I really dont think this is going to improve from here on out.

Will lock if this continues to get nasty.


#12

Hmmm… yeah I agree with you on that one…

Like I said before, this is not aimed at any individual. I just think that people need to evaluate their own skills before blaming it on their tools. People who have nothing good to say about any of the programs they have used (and I have encountered many people like that) are generally frustrated because their own skills are stunted.

Funny, I was actually going to post this in General Discussions, but then decided to make it LW specific and post it here. The fact is that this phenomenon is found amongst users of ALL apps. It’s just been so overly prevelant here lately that I decided to post this here.

There is a definite line between wanting sensible, warranted additions and improvements in functionality to a program, to just outright slagging everything off.


#13

No, you’re generalizing that everyone who complains about LW HAS to be a clueless, lazy noob. The fact is most of the complaining comes from experienced users, who usually know far more than these blind-to-anything-else fanboys.


#14

Time and dedication fixes everything. And that’s all I have to say about that.


#15

That sounds like a fine way to end this thread. :slight_smile:


#16

Originally posted by CIM
No, you’re generalizing that everyone who complains about LW HAS to be a clueless, lazy noob. The fact is most of the complaining comes from experienced users, who usually know far more than these blind-to-anything-else fanboys.

No I am not.
Did I not even make it very clear in my post that I certainly think LW is lacking in many areas too? So I would vicariously be saying that I am a clueless, lazy noob too :rolleyes:

I have a nice long list of things I want changed in LW. And once again CIM, I’ll spell it out for you: I’m not talking about people who make sensible warranted complaints, I’m talking about people that do NOTHING but bitch, and then show substandard work. And by this I mean no offense to beginners, I am talking about the people who make bad models and then just just blame it on the software they are using.

[EDIT]
LOL I saw the closed thing as the thread loaded up after I posted and wondered how the hell it got in there before the thread was closed :scream:


#17

Bah, you snuck one in Leigh! This is the end for real this time.