2013 extension announcement...rant



Why are you getting a hard time?

It’s nothing to do with the fact that it’s a particle flow extension. It’s because it an extension that’s NOT being offered that is the problem. Years ago when you persuaded us to switch to a yearly subscription the sweetener was extra goodies , extensions, that we could get our hands on before the next release. So it seems a lot of us took out subscription, and we got extras. Great, we’re (reasonably) happy.

So now you’ve massively upped the price of subscription, and announced that if we want the full set of extras we have to spend even more money on software that I WON’T EVER USE!

This is why I’m angry.

This is a classic case of moving goal posts. Say we all buy the creation suite, what will happen next? will you change the rules again? I listened to you once and believed you, now you’re taking the p*ss. I won’t believe you again.


I’ll edit my original post as I now have a handle on the situation. I agree with you all that Box2 is not currently made available to 3ds Max users. I will work with the team to investigate options. No promises.

Sorry. My fault for going on my sabbatical and unplugging completely. Some issues were postponed pending my return (as I’ve just learned).


Thanks Ken,

Regardless of the outcome, my view still stands.

Bundling old software doesn’t justify my subscription, and making it a two-tier subscription is not a direction I am willing to go - it’s time for me to call it a day on subscriptions I’m afraid.

All the best sorting it out.




Everyone definitely has their own needs to consider. I think the data shows that we have a high renewal rate (and it has been going up) and that the vast majority of customers get a decent benefit out of subscription for one reason or another. Not every subscription extension is as valuable to every customer as we’d like, but I think we’ve done a mostly good job (as the data shows). In almost every case, those extensions have gone on to be further improved upon.


i think you can imagine why people are not happy -
the price of 3ds subs has been brought UP to the same level as subs on ECS but at the same time the reward level have been pretty much restricted to ECS only… it just does not seem fair?

all 3ds max users get for the extension is a price rise? hardly an incentive to keep up subs is it?

i have been a subscriber for about 6 years now and the goodies every sub makes it worth my while to update - i have to say its tempting to just leave my sub go and look for other software now…



You know Steve has a point, I’ve been paying nearly £400 a year for Max, the last 2 versions are unused, that’s £800 wasted. I was planning to switch to Max 2013, it’s had 4 big bug fixes so it might be safe to use, I have a couple of plugins that won’t make it to Max 2013 so I’ll have to find replacements. By the time I get my workflow sorted out Max 2014 will be coming along and a subscription renewal at £500+.

As a subscription is not giving me any advantages and I don’t need a subscription to software I don’t use then I might as well scrap the scubscription and save the money. Then I can upgrade when a decent version of Max comes along every 4 or 5 years, sure it’ll cost more than a years subscription, it may even cost more than the cost of all the skipped subs (and I don’t doubt for one min that Autodesk will stick thier upgrade prices up) but at least I’ll see what I’m buying and won’t have to waste money on promises only to have the rug pulled from under my feet.


Hi Ken,

I honestly think you’re going to see a change in your subs after this, or at least the demographic.

Upping the subscription costs and making other stuff 2-tier is not going to sit well. The big question is whether this is a policy where the good stuff goes into Max on ECS.

I know I’m not going to get an answer, but that’s the question that’s been raised with this announcement.

I doubt it will make too much of a dent in your cash-cow Arch/Viz clientel, but for anyone in broadcast/VFX, it’s a different matter.

It feels a bit like when Apple screwed up over Final Cut and Adobe made hay - If Maxon have got any sense they’ll capitalise on it as well.


So just to clarify, this Extension that we standard 3ds users pay £500 a year for is just the particle cache ? Is this similar to the Krakatoa particle cache which comes for free with their demo or does it do significantly more for the extra money.


At the same time… on a different planet… Houdini slashed their prices…

more to say ?


“As has been described in this thread, Oleg is offering Box2/3 to existing users on his terms. Nothing has been taken away and your choices are not limited.”

Ken, I have to respectfully disagree with you on this one. What’s been taken away is the freedom to purchase additional seats of Box 2 & 3 without paying extra for Mudbox and Motionbuilder to get them. At least this is the way I understand it. Please let me know if I am wrong and Oleg/Orbaz still maintains the ability to sell all the Pflow extensions as separate products.



I appreciate that you have enough data to present a positive perspective from any negative feedback but the reality is that in giving priority to those with the creative suite you have created a two tier system. On its own this would be enough to upset a lot of users but taking in to account the fact that subscriptions are increasing by 45% it is a real kick in the teeth.


The cynicism on AD’s part here has reached a new summit. We’ve be told for the last, what, 4 years, to be patient, that XBR would take time to pan out, you churn out yearly upgrades that fix some issues but introduce a whole set of fresh ones (containers, Nitrous etc), you present a rather vague roadmap with no definite terms, not to mention the completely and totally useless “splitting” of Max and Design, yet you upgrade subs fees by a sizable amount and now this. Why not tell ALL your subscribing customers you actually DO care and thank them for their patience with Max’s development and make this SAP available to all regardless of their subscription “status”. I very rarely rant, but this is beyond me :shrug:


Just glad I don’t use AD products no more.


This response is coming from the fact that people, myself included, feel blackmailed into buying something we DO NOT NEED in order to get something we DO NEED that has NOTHING to do with the stuff we DO NOT NEED.

If we use Max for particle dynamics, why do I need to buy motion builder and mudbox in order to get those tools? It is simply nonsensical.


I can say after over 10 years of Max, and paying subscription since it started for multiple licenses. I am jumping ship and taking the seats at my office with me as I am the deciding factor A.S.A.P. I feel completely screwed over. This is what being violated feels like.
Autodesk is not getting our sub price increase. I will be discussing with the technical director about stopping future payments on the sub later today. I am looking into Modo and C4d for our product animations and motion graphics needs. It may be a over reaction, I have defended autodesk a hundred times in the past but frankly they can kiss my ass.


After thinking about this whole issue for a day I’m seriously considering cancelling my subscription. Very sad since I’ve been on it since day one and a 3ds user since DOS r2.


Why don’t we try just giving us (Adsk) a few days to sort this out before reacting? We are working on the situation (no promises).

There’s plenty of time to beat us up if we fail to do anything.


It is not at all reasonable to restrict updated features to the Suite products, there’s no reason other than greed on the part of Autodesk


I am not posting more just yet, it would get nasty

IF the toolboxes in their full scale are going to be available for Suite owners only (which barely any of the studios or individuals are) i consider this product(toolboxes) dicontinued
I get that Oleg can give out installers to already owners but what about future options to buy it as a plugin? Will people be forced into a suite if they didn’t own it prior to 2013? So i get an additional array of tools that i will never touch or asked for? Not to mention that freelance artist are tighter on the budget then studios hence wouldn’t buy. PFlow will loose all it’s remaining mojo. Nobody is gonna spend that much extra money for a toolset that was pretty much out of development for almost 4 years

.People who know my website, etc. might know that i hold up the torch for PFlow and Orbaz but it sure get’s harder by the day. Very hard.



Occupy AD booth at Siggraph? We are the 99% LOOOL