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View Poll Results: Is outsourcing and more international facilities helping the CG industry?
Yes: It's no problem nowadays 183 28.96%
Yes, but for films only: 27 4.27%
Yes, if studios invest: 121 19.15%
No 301 47.63%
Voters: 632. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 04-13-2009, 08:06 AM   #1
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CGSociety/3DWorld Poll :: Outsourcing

The latest issue of 3D World looks at how Rhythm & Hues is moving into the
realms of feature production via international facilities. It's adding a
Malaysia facility to its existing India and US locations, so that modeling
for a feature film could be done in Mumbai, and animation in Los Angeles.
Many other studios already contract out work to far-flung facilities.

We'd like to know what you think of the trend for studios using
facilities on the other side of the world. Cast your vote in our poll then
see the results here and at 3dworldmag.com.

QUESTION
Are outsourcing and more international facilities helping the CG industry?

Yes: It's no problem nowadays for far-flung facilities to pool knowledge and
share data.

Yes, but for films only: Movies can be produced internationally, but
commercials and shorts are too hard to outsource.

Yes, if studios invest: Rhythm & Hues' 'insourcing' approach is better than
just outsourcing work.

No: Top-quality projects rely on close communication of the kind that
multinational production can't provide.
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Old 04-13-2009, 08:49 AM   #2
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I think it also depends on what you aim for in cg industry.

It's nothing strange that outsourcing projects are usually "soulless". It's natural, because everyone is doing what they have been told and the word "team" becomes almost barely a formal generalization.

Also about saving money or time in this way... I was once working in a place where the client was outsourcing the projects which were outsourced to them by another major client. So talking about feedbacks, deadlines and the whole result it was SO STUPID that it almost were evoking vomiting. I personally would never try to "save" money this way. I'm not even talking about the satisfaction of that kind of job itself.
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Old 04-13-2009, 09:34 AM   #3
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Before this thread becomes a flame war, I honestly don't see the problem with Outsourcing. Granted we are a studio that has been outsourced to, but we have lost contracts to other alternatives in India and China.

Films make half or more from international revenue. Why should ONLY the US CG market benefit when half of their salaries and profits are being generated internationally?

Globalisation is here to stay. Complaining about it wont do anything. Its good to see the leaders embracing it.

The real questions shouldnt be "Are outsourcing and more international facilities helping the CG industry?", but "Is the anti-outsourcing 'movement' stifling the growth of the CG industry"
 
Old 04-13-2009, 02:34 PM   #4
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This is an itchy topic, because it is a trend that covers many industries. The decision to outsource is always aimed at maximizing profits.

It's eventual, but as this activity increases, I foresee a balancing of value that is put upon human resources. If salary/income rates are half of that in off shore locations than they are in North America then I would anticipate that the over time the income of practitioner's in North America will have to drop in order to compete.

The gap in other countries between those who have and those who don't have is extreme. That gap has increased substantially over the last 20 years in the U.S. Like manufacturing, which is predominantly done overseas in countries like China, service work may follow that same path. Although, there has been marked improvements in the standard of living in China, some can argue that human rights are vastly undermined. This would lead one to believe that corporate america could succumb to this level of behavior, because well, greed is overall empower nature of capitalism.

An example of this trend is IBM, who recently laid of 5000 technology workers in the US. Yet they retain a workforce of 37,000 workers in India. Hewlett Packard is following the same pattern, all work is being sent overseas in order to maximize profits.

It made bode well for the creation of CG work, but overall, it will contribute to increased unemployment and decreased standard of living in North America.
 
Old 04-13-2009, 03:31 PM   #5
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Totally agree with PerryDS, outsourcing only benefits companies and industry leaders, but for the actual creators and artists this only means decreasing sallary rates and unemployment.
I have a few bad outsourcing experiences myself, involving people who requested 3d work from other countries and misteriously dissapear once they get their work done.

I will NEVER do any outsourcing work to anybody again, I rather starve to death.
 
Old 04-13-2009, 03:55 PM   #6
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i think outsourcing is always a bad idea, the main reason being is that the market is not fair.

Look at what it has already done to the american economy. i could see if there was a world minimum wage or if we shared the same patent, and copyright laws. Most importantly the inforcement of these laws but we don't, which allows for an unfair market.

"competing" with a communist country or totalitarian government is unfair.

what has happened to the american economy is a prime example of how unstable globalisation truly is. we as humans and "people in power" are not mentally ready for a one world economy.

countries should focus on their people to empower their people and their country.

Money is not evil for it is a way to motivate people, but men who seek it to be above and control the masses are evil. They seek power for themselves not for the good of mankind.

like perry said, it only leads to unemployment and decreased standard of living, "but" i believe
not only in america but everywhere.

a country should be able to stand on it's own, not the back of another.

i saw Slum Dog Millionare and i liked it. "i think it was based on India, i could be wrong"
but my point is i would rather them use their time making movies and animations about their
country and culture than spending it making stuff for greedy ass executives looking to fatten
their pockets by exploiting these countries and our own people.
 
Old 04-13-2009, 04:09 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PerryDS
...it will contribute to increased unemployment and decreased standard of living in North America.
Agreed. Which is why I voted No.
 
Old 04-13-2009, 04:17 PM   #8
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Outsourced the movie...

Creative movie on an American salesman getting paid to train his own 'outsources'. If you got netflix it's on the instant watch list.
 
Old 04-13-2009, 04:20 PM   #9
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Jesus. Was this poll really a good idea? Not even one page in and already we're speaking the language of 'us and them'. I'd give it a couple of pages before it degenerates into outright raciscm. For the vfx companies I wouldn't say it's so much about maximising profits as it is about staying afloat.

Like it or not, this is where the market is going. Rather than bitching about how it's unfair (also: in what cloud cuckoo land do you live where you think the way the US trades with the rest of the world is fair?), you'd be much better off spending your time making yourself more valuable than the guy in India who will do your job for 30% of your salary.

I'd also like someone to answer me this: why is a job doing CG on a movie (for example) inherently an 'american job'?
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Old 04-13-2009, 04:26 PM   #10
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Quote:
i think outsourcing is always a bad idea, the main reason being is that the market is not fair.


Quote:
"competing" with a communist country or totalitarian government is unfair.


India, aswell as many countries that im sure outsourcing happens to, is a democracy....

As for it being a bad idea and unfair, is it unfair because the economies of those countries aren't bloated, and cost of living is low enough that they CAN undercut other countries in
terms of price?

Quote:
Look at what it has already done to the american economy.


Globalisation has nothing to do with the current state of the American economy. If anything, these fortune 500 companys have been able to keep afloat because of their international investments-them not having all their eggs in one basket.

Quote:
i could see if there was a world minimum wage or if we shared the same patent, and copyright laws.


So if there was a world minimum wage, but it was based on the salaries of the countries with the largest workforces (say India and China for arguments sake), and the US minimum wage was cut down to say $2 an hour (just converting what our minimum wage is into U$D), you would be ok with that? I don't think so. Basically what you are saying is 'Its ok to change the rules, as long as the changes are in our favor'.

Quote:
We as humans and "people in power" are not mentally ready for a one world economy.


We dont have, nor want a one world economy. Thats the entire point of globalisation. Its not to bring the US economy to the world, but to embrace the fact that we have thousands of economic systems working together.

Quote:
like perry said, it only leads to unemployment and decreased standard of living, "but" i believe
not only in america but everywhere.


How can money coming into place A instead of place B POSSIBLY decrease the standard of living in place B?

Quote:
i saw Slum Dog Millionare and i liked it. "i think it was based on India, i could be wrong"
but my point is i would rather them use their time making movies and animations about their
country and culture than spending it making stuff for greedy ass executives looking to fatten
their pockets by exploiting these countries and our own people.


India have been making local movies since 1913, with annual ticket sales of more than 3.6 billion (compared to Hollywoods 2.6 billion).
 
Old 04-13-2009, 04:30 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by playmesumch00ns
I'd also like someone to answer me this: why is a job doing CG on a movie (for example) inherently an 'american job'?
When the company who's doing it is American...it becomes an American job! If a UK company was doing it, guess what? It'd be anj inherently a UK job. This isn't a matter of 'us vs. them'. This is about Native companies (US, UK, India, etc. etc. ) using their native talents and growing their business that way.
 
Old 04-13-2009, 04:34 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry_g1s
When the company who's doing it is American...it becomes an American job! If a UK company was doing it, guess what? It'd be anj inherently a UK job. This isn't a matter of 'us vs. them'. This is about Native companies (US, UK, India, etc. etc. ) using their native talents and growing their business that way.


What if the native talents are too expensive?
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Old 04-13-2009, 04:47 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by playmesumch00ns
What if the native talents are too expensive?
What is your definition of too expensive? Are they too expensive, because as an executive/shareholders/etc. you want an extra million in your pocket? Look, you can't outsource (denying local talent) and wonder why the local unemployment rate is up.

This doesn't work, we already know this. If you export more work then you import as a country you eventually dry up. So it may be profitable short term, but in the long run, it dies out.

If you really want to raise the bar on CG you do it from with in. If countries like India, China, etc. want to compete in the global market of CG, let's see more home grown movies/productions from native companies.
 
Old 04-13-2009, 04:50 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vonbon
"competing" with a communist country or totalitarian government is unfair.


... because every country that exists outside of US borders is either communist or totalitarian?

This level of ignorance is absolutely flabbergasting. I love how this thread is less than a page in length and has already descended into a xenophobic AMERICA VERSUS THE REST OF THE EVIL UNIVERSE bitch fest.

[edit] oops I made a typo, I meant countries, not companies.
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Last edited by leigh : 04-13-2009 at 08:18 PM.
 
Old 04-13-2009, 04:52 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry_g1s
What is your definition of too expensive? Are they too expensive, because as an executive/shareholders/etc. you want an extra million in your pocket? Look, you can't outsource (denying local talent) and wonder why the local unemployment rate is up.

This doesn't work, we already know this. If you export more work then you import as a country you eventually dry up. So it may be profitable short term, but in the long run, it dies out.

If you really want to raise the bar on CG you do it from with in. If countries like India, China, etc. want to compete in the global market of CG, let's see more home grown movies/productions from native companies.


That's the thing I don't think you're quite understanding. We're not talking about an extra million in anyone's pocket. We're talking about outsourcing a percentage of the work so that the native workforce can continue to enjoy their large salaries.
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