why does everyone model charaters with polys

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Old 09 September 2003   #1
why does everyone model charaters with polys

why does everyone model characters with Polys, is it just easier to texture, i know for a fact that NURBS yield cleaner results and are generally more realistc...
is it because polys are easier than say a patch model? or is it for animation reasons where poly have less data to calculate and render....
enlighten me (i've never really modeled with Polys)

... i like patch modeling but almost every 3d character in the gallery are made of polygons... should i switch??
 
Old 09 September 2003   #2
I can only speak for myself...

It is easier to work with, because there aren't as many restrictions. The topology can be whatever I want, and thus it can actually be cleaner thatn NURBS. There's no need to fight with stitching either.
The workflow is also better, I'm not working with surfaces and shells, but with volumes - I don't have to concentrate on the small details in the beginning.
There's a lot of trickery with the poly tools that I'm not sure you could do with NURBS surfaces and curves.
The UVs can be independent of the topology, so texturing is also easier - I can have only 1 texture map for the whole model, instead of 1 per patch.

Should you switch to it just because of these? I don't think so. Should you try it? Definitely.
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Old 09 September 2003   #3
You donīt have to switch if you donīt want to.
Imagine everybody goes everywhere by car, and you go on bike..., should you switch because of that fact?, you really wonīt.
Because you are confortable with your bike, itīs dangerous, more than cars, but... you like it.
This case is the same, if you model like you want to with NURBS why are you going to switch?
NURBS are lighter than polys, NURBS deform better than polys, NURBS are textured better than...., well, nowadays you can texture polys as good as NURBS.
Now I ask you..., why are you painting with oil instead of colour pencils?, is oil better than colour pencils?
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Old 09 September 2003   #4
flaws in polys

Polygons also have their share of flaws, although texturing each patch on a nurbs model is tedious work, so is laying out UVs for let's say a 500 000 + poly model... besides you can do things like attach fur to a single patch and it will flow well with the surface, and it does indeed deform better than poly.... but i'll give polys a try simply because of the heavy toolset available in maya.
 
Old 09 September 2003   #5
Modelling with polys is easier, the simple fact that nowadays 95% of the organic models in the gallery is built using polygons+subdivisions is solid proof for me.

You don't have to switch if you don't want to, but I think that if you do make the switch that you will like it a lot. At first you might think that you lack the control you have with NURBS, but that is because polys react a bit differently.

As for the texturing of 500.000 polyons being a rather tedious task I agree. Luckily you can take a shortcut: texture the low-poly cage and the subdivided result will inherit the UV coordinates.
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Old 09 September 2003   #6
Re: flaws in polys

Quote: Originally posted by anoe_nomus
but i'll give polys a try simply because of the heavy toolset available in maya.


umm. mayas toolset for polys isnt that great unfortunately.
its never been aliases focus to have a great poly toolset. ( one reason why split poly tool sucks, and bevel is broken )
 
Old 09 September 2003   #7
Maybe consider trying Wings 3D - it won't cost you anything and you might be pleasantly surprised by its toolset.

pp
 
Old 09 September 2003   #8
I've modelled with both polys and nurbs for a while.

There are some things that I find are really fast to model with nurbs - often objects for a TVC.

But for characters, I've found polys to be a lot faster to get exactly what you want.

Also, I used to sculpt a fair bit with clay and stone. I've found with polys I can get closer to my natural workflow - going for mass, form and volume and leaving details till last.

puzzlepaul is right. Wings is a great for poly modelling. I use it with maya everyday. The obj import/export between wings and maya works great. You can also set wings to use Maya camera mode if that's how you are used to navigating 3d space.


wings
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Old 09 September 2003   #9
one reason why split poly tool sucks

Ambient: why do you think the split tool sucks? Coming from 3dsMax I absolutely love Maya's split tool and Maya's way of working with edges (the ability to delete edges without creating a hole in the surface).

Wings looks great, but unfortunatly it doesn't support a Wacom tablet. When I try to pan or rotate the whole viewport starts spinning out of control.
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Old 09 September 2003   #10
"Wings looks great, but unfortunatly it doesn't support a Wacom tablet."

Set your stylus to mouse mode and it should work fine! :o) - Baz
 
Old 09 September 2003   #11
cuz mayas split tool wasnt made( actually quite a number of its tools ) werent made with intuitivity in mind.
snap to vertex? edge midpoint? being able to use it while in other manipulation modes?( ie softselection,etc )? how about going backwards on its own created edges, and when you undo to be able to go back one edge at a time..?
how about it updating every single edgecut you make? without having to press enter?

thats a few examples of why i feel mayas split tool is rather crappy. its good until youve used something better

ive been rather unfortunate of being spoiled early :(

one reason why wings3d doesnt support a wacom is because once your in camera mode your mouse cursor is always in the center, and you can spin forever without your mouse moving outside your window. that is why a Wacom will always freak out.

anyhoo. like i said. mayas polytoolset+ the system around it is rather weak because alias never really focused on it. take a look at the edit menu. its a complete mess. the tools havent been made smart enough to adapt to your current selection. so when you pull out the menu and use the merge multiple verticies comand when you have edges what will happen? nothing. so why is the tool there when you dont need it? why not just have a single tool for merging instead of 3. have the tools execute the function depending on the selection you make, instead of having you go through long ass menus, where only 1/3 of the functions that are there are available to you at any given time.

its because maya was never made with poly modelling as an important focus. theres a number of poly tools in the game package ( and man the install for that thing absolutely sucks ). why havent those tools made it into the core of the package ?
 
Old 09 September 2003   #12
@ambient whisper: http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=82130 , working bevel, working solid chamfer, working softselection, working cut etc. and all for maya
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Old 09 September 2003   #13
I'd have to agree with Ambient-whisper as far as maya's poly tools. Maya's biggest strength is animation.



Sorry to take this OT:

Quote: Originally posted by ambient-whisper


one reason why wings3d doesnt support a wacom is because once your in camera mode your mouse cursor is always in the center, and you can spin forever without your mouse moving outside your window. that is why a Wacom will always freak out.


We know that the problem with wings and a wacom does not apply to mouse mode. However I have also found a situation where I get no spinning in pen mode. On a machine with an ATI card I get a spin everytime. On a machine with an Nvidia card I get a spin if the scene is empty, but as soon as I put an object in there, I don't get the pen mode spin problem.

Any thoughts ambient? anyone? ferris?
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Old 09 September 2003   #14
Hmmm, certainly don't have so much issues with the cut tool.

I can snap to vertex by starting on the correct edge and sliding the cut to the vertex and I can undo 'edge by edge' by pressing 'backspace' (if I'm still in the process of cutting).
What do you mean by having to press enter after every single edgecut to see the result? I can see the result while I am cutting.

I probably sound very defensive, but that is certainly not my intention. I've only switched to Maya two months ago, I'm not a hardcore Maya zealot that refuses to admit any faults in the program.

As for the non-context sensitive menu's in Maya, I completely agree. It's rather silly to have different commands for extrude vertice, extrude edge and extrude face.
That's why I have made a simple popup menu bound to a hotkey that has for example a (scripted) collapse or extrude function that works on all components. I would indeed be better if those function would work with every component by default.

Set your stylus to mouse mode and it should work fine! :o) - Baz

You are right, but setting the stylus to mouse mode kinda defeats the purpose of using a tablet..I hate the mouse mode
After Peters comment I will have to check it again, since I've just switched from an ATI card to a Nvidia...
I definitely want to try Wings's edge sliding plugin.
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Last edited by Marcel : 09 September 2003 at 05:06 PM.
 
Old 09 September 2003   #15
<< try Wings's edge sliding plugin >>

This plugin is one of several excellent plugs made by Clacos for wings - but they have not been updated for recent releases.

Please bear this in mind if you want to use same - you'll have to go back to 0.98.04 / 06 (approx - not sure exactly)

Fortunately, the latest Wings version (9816a) allows for multiple installations - so you can use a previous version alongside the current one.

pp
 
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