How do you feel about Poser?

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View Poll Results: How do you feel about Poser?
Poser models should be banned from CG talk 31 18.90%
I don't care who uses Poser or not 16 9.76%
Poser is okay as long as the usage of it is revealed by Artist in the first post 49 29.88%
I cannot respect an artist who claims they modelled something made in Poser 35 21.34%
The end result justifies the means 16 9.76%
My clients are too cheap or in too much of a hurry to pay for original material 4 2.44%
I like Poser nudes 11 6.71%
My other favorite website is Renderosity 2 1.22%
Voters: 164. You may not vote on this poll

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  08 August 2003
Question How do you feel about Poser?

Given the rash of Poser sightings lately I thought a POLL about it was in order. Don't hate me for asking
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Last edited by gmask : 08 August 2003 at 01:01 AM.
 
  08 August 2003
personally i think it's more suitable for 2D artists who wants to have the extra freedom and ease that 3D offers and that's probably why most Poser art i've seen are just heavily postworked stills... another thing is, some people started with Poser before moving on to more advance programs.

i heard people say "it's not the program, it's the artist" again and again so if someone can make exceptional art with it then why not??
 
  08 August 2003
Poser is just a simple software with less features. It is what it is. So other than that, i don't see anything wrong with it.

I'm sure if you put any hotshot on poser they'd still put out nice stuff.
 
  08 August 2003
Quote: Originally posted by The Cross
Poser is just a simple software with less features. It is what it is. So other than that, i don't see anything wrong with it.

I'm sure if you put any hotshot on poser they'd still put out nice stuff.


Okay but is using Poser actually modelling? Do you really model anything in Poser?

I'm not saying as a software it is wrong but it is certainly misleading to let people think you "modelled" something when you only posed it.
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  08 August 2003
well the blame goes to the artist then... they're probably just newbies who can't tell the difference between modelling and posing...

all u got in the way of modelling in Poser is a buncha primitives and magnet tool... sure technically u can make any shape u want with it but about the only thing u can make without going mad is a simple models like ball with bump maps for details
 
  08 August 2003
Quote: Originally posted by P_T
well the blame goes to the artist then... they're probably just newbies who can't tell the difference between modelling and posing...

all u got in the way of modelling in Poser is a buncha primitives and magnet tool... sure technically u can make any shape u want with it but about the only thing u can make without going mad is a simple models like ball with bump maps for details


I see as basically being a stock model program that allows you to customize the models. Back int eh day I aw some very non landscape type images come out of Bryce but I know that the person had to do alot of work to create their model in that program. it's amazing what primatives and displacement maps can do.
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  08 August 2003
In me personal opinion, that is, I don't see anything wrong with using poser as a tool. It doesn't replace art at all, if you see most of the images made with poser, most of it looks liveless and has that mannequin feel, while I've seen other images made with it that actually feel alive and have good composition and the like. If you can do good stuff with it, I don't see why not using it to begin with. I think most of the bad press poser is getting is simply because since it's so easy to use (and so easy to make a naked girl/buff guy image with) there are lots of people using it with no artistic sense at all, so the crap to art ratio is a lot higher in poser, IMHO...
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  08 August 2003
>>>If you can do good stuff with it, I don't see why not using it to begin with.

Againt eh mainissues is that if you post an image on Renderosity it is expected that your image was probaly made using Poser but here it is confusing as to wether your talent lies in composition or modelling. I think in this setting people have the right to know how soemthing was created.


On th eother hand if you went to an art exhibit and you saw two nudes and one was a photgraph and the other was a CG woman made in Poser but well done then it may not matter how it was made.

The point being that this site isn't about just showing the end product.. it is about the whole process and it's unfair to the group of users when one decides to conceal or otherwise misrepresent how something was created. The spirit of the site is IMO supposed to be about the users contributing to the group by example. So is lieing and plagairism exmples we want to follow?

Sure Poser is a tool but if you buy a bunch of stock models are they tools? Can you use them in your project sand say I made them? You can but you are fooling yourself.. no matter how great the end result. However if the end product sells or meets the requirement sof the job then great but it's still a self-delusion.

Poser the double edged sword.
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  08 August 2003
Has a certain someone offered any explination of his actions?
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  08 August 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Goon
Has a certain someone offered any explination of his actions?


I guess the point being that if you submit your work for review here or just to show it that it should be mandatory to reveal the usage of premade materials.

In one particular case..probably not the one you are thinking.. the explanation was this.. they made the image for their girlfriend, they didn't speak english and where they come from this kind of thing is typical. The model was from Poser and the composition was from another artist. They were heralded as being a genius artist here on CGtalk.. so it make me wonder if I take a poser model and project the Mona Lisa over it.. am I genius.. I mean assuming that the end result looks good?

In any case the persons reaction to being discovered or revealed should be apologetic or at least humble. In the case I speak of that was more or less the reaction.. they simple didn't know that it was bad form to borrow so much and not mention it. In the case you might be thinking of the artist's reaction is ugly and arrogant. He accuses the viewers as being jealous and guilty or doing the same things. He offers no apology, no humility and no remorse. Basically the reaction of someone caught redhanded and who cannot handle their own guilt. When you build up people to think you are this talented modeller and then it turns out that your new found "skill" in modelling is to use Poser it's messed up.

Sure naked pictures of ladies are fun to look at and surely they are plentiful but who would respect more the artist who rendered one with patience and skill or the one who took the shortcut and then lied about it? Even if they didn't lie about it I would marvel at the person who did it from scratch while the other I would just shrug at..yawn.. yet another naked lady.. big deal.. go over to renderosity and oggle your eyes out...plenty of that kind of fodder over there.
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  08 August 2003
I HATE POSER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If you work in an industry, like South African industry where most people cant tell the difference between good quality 3d and shit quality 3d, then you'll hate poser. People go and sell poser characters for next to nothing and then when you try and sell a really shit hot character, people say "Why should I pay all that money when I can get the same thing from the guy with poser??".

They all look the same and they're terrible looking. I guess there's nothing you can do about it, people made it and people buy it, but I personally hate it!!!:thumbsdow

This is my opinion, so please if you're a poser fan and you feel the need to argue this, rather dont Thanks!!

later
loked
 
  08 August 2003
>>>But, decided to post an image anyway, and deliberately left out the software, because i wanted to know what people here though about the image itself.


Well your stuff looks pretty good but I noticed that you do mention what software as used on specific images on your website... again I think if you post an image of just a womands face and don't mention that it's Poser that it's sort of pushing the threshold.. especially if people start commenting on ho wmuch they like the model..

Fashion model photographers for example cannot take full responsisibility for making a model beautiful... this is obvious. But with CG it may not be so clear cut as to what base is for that beauty.. a CG artist could have modelled the model or used one from a library.. In the end if you just like to look at beautiful women you may not care how it was created. Againt he issue is I guess more of a case by case issue.. if somebody saw your portrait of a womens head and said it was great model would you immediately point out that it was a Poser model?

Maybe artists who don't want to be judged by their methods should say so when they post an image.

Another issue with this site in particular is that their is a mix of professional and amateur artists.. both exhibiting a high level of talent.. when I say amateur I only mean not for a living. The pros are more concerned with ethics I think.. if they are in a place where they hire artists or they want to be hired then the truth of how something was created is very relevant. In many jobs the end results may be what counts but being truthful with your employers is also valued. Being dishonest in general is not appreciated.. it's just best to be upfront.. did you do all the work or didn't you? This may even include stating things like the textures I used are based on digital stills I took of leaves..although in comparison to Poser a better example would be this is a picture of a nude woman that I repainted.
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  08 August 2003
Quote: Originally posted by loked
I HATE POSER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If you work in an industry, like South African industry where most people cant tell the difference between good quality 3d and shit quality 3d, then you'll hate poser. People go and sell poser characters for next to nothing and then when you try and sell a really shit hot character, people say "Why should I pay all that money when I can get the same thing from the guy with poser??".


That's a real problem.. but you didn't vote for my clients are too cheap or in too much of a hurry..hehe..

Crap Poser work should not be allowd here.. that's what renderosity is for. personally I think Poser nudes and any nude repaint should not be allowed here.. any monkey can do it..I swear and there is no shortage of soft or hard pron on the net..jeez.. get the hormones under control guys..

I mean fan art in general I find questionable but at least you know where the inspiration came from... when somebody reproduces an obscure artists work and then doesn't mention it.. but is heralded as a genius it makes me MAD! I see that as only one rung below being Dale Williams IMO.
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  08 August 2003
I completely agree gmask. Its like imagine you went and applied for a job as a rigger and showed them a rig made by animan or finalRig. You pressed a few buttons and you got a model, now you gonna go and boast that?? Come on!

Down with poser!!!!!

later
loked
 
  08 August 2003
>>>People go and sell poser characters for next to nothing and then when you try and sell a really shit hot character, people say "Why should I pay all that money when I can get the same thing from the guy with poser??".

BTW .. just out of curiosity what kind of projects are you doing where Poser characters are acceptable?
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