Problem with wrap skinning

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Old 06 June 2003   #1
Problem with wrap skinning

I have been working on rigging a subd charcter by skinning it's poly version as a wrap deformer. I assigned all the wraps, with max distance set to .01. When I translated the wraps, the subd seemed to move with it completely, no spikes left behind. I proceeded to smooth skin the wrap to a skele, and then went about the process of doing my weighting. While weighting, obviosly I rotated joints to test how the deformations were working. I occasionally turned on the subd to check everything out. Just today, after I finished the head, I turned on the subd and noticed severel "spikes" extending from the head towards the origin. I have tried upping the max distance, but I can't seem to get the spikes to snap back to where they should be.

The charcter now is in the default pose, yet these spikes exist. I have had the max distance for the head's wrap up as high as 10 with no change. I'm not sure, but I think 10 is higher than I should have to go so I haven't gone any higher. It also takes my 3 year old power mac QUITE a while to calculate the wraps when the number is that high.

I'm not sure how these spikes occured. The rest of the wraps seem to be working fine. Can someone recommend some trouble-shooting tips so I can solve this problem? I was thinking of exporting my weight maps, detaching the skele, and doing the wraps all over again. I'm just afraid I'll have this problem all over again later, so I'd like to get to the bottom of it. Thanks.
Attached Files
File Type: zip spikes.jpg.zip (19.2 KB, 30 views)

Last edited by zbgump : 06 June 2003 at 01:47 AM.
 
Old 06 June 2003   #2
Re: Problem with wrap skinning

When this has happened to me it is because some CV's in the wrap object are not getting fully controled. So some where there are spots that are not being controlled a hundred percent by a joint.

This beign the case you should beable to go back to the the lower Max Distance. Generally speaking wraps are slow.. you never wish to leave them on while animating except to check deformation and even then it's best if the test motions are keyframed first.
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Old 06 June 2003   #3
So you'r saying that when I originally assigned the wrap deformer to the subd, I may not have selected all the vertices on the subd that I wanted?

So, should I remove the wraps and reassign them?

BTW, another thing I noticed is these "spikes" seem to be snapped to the origin. Not sure if that is indicative of anything.
 
Old 06 June 2003   #4
Quote: Originally posted by zbgump
So you'r saying that when I originally assigned the wrap deformer to the subd, I may not have selected all the vertices on the subd that I wanted?

So, should I remove the wraps and reassign them?

BTW, another thing I noticed is these "spikes" seem to be snapped to the origin. Not sure if that is indicative of anything.


No that's not what I'm saying at all.. I'm saying that the weighting on your low res poly model is not being controlled %100 at some CV's by the joints.

YOu might wanted to go ahead and break the connection in the wrap and then make sure the poly modell is completely controlled.. Try moving the skeleton far away from the origin and you should see the spikes form as the skeleton gets further away from the origin.
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Old 06 June 2003   #5
I see what your saying. I moved the skele around and the poly's are fully skinned I think.

I think I may have found the problem though, I think. The area where the spikes are sprouting is around the eyes. In that area, theirs a tiny "lip" where the eyelid is meant to touch the eye. Its very small. I'm going to play with it and see if it makes a difference if I enlarge it.

I do have another question. Should wrap deformers be be bigger than the objects that they are deforming? Should I make sure that the subd is entirely inside the poly wrap deformer?

Thanks for your help g
 
Old 06 June 2003   #6
>>>I do have another question. Should wrap deformers be be bigger than the objects that they are deforming? Should I make sure that the subd is entirely inside the poly wrap deformer?

Hmm Well I think you want them to be as close to one another as possible.. I dunno if it would help to make the wrap larger than the SubD.. if it is too large then things may not deform as expected.

If you amke it larger you will definately have to increase the max distance.
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Old 07 July 2003   #7
Quote: Originally posted by zbgump


I think I may have found the problem though, I think. The area where the spikes are sprouting is around the eyes. In that area, theirs a tiny "lip" where the eyelid is meant to touch the eye. Its very small. I'm going to play with it and see if it makes a difference if I enlarge it.



OK, well I never ended up figuring it out. I played with it for awhile, and then went on to work on some other things. Its been about a month, and I want to get back into this project.

I need to ask a favor. I was hoping someone might volunteer to take a look at me file; see if they can't isolate my problem. Its about 2 megs zipped so I would have to email it. Plz contact me at zbgump@hotmail.com if anyone could help. It would be most appreciated.
 
Old 07 July 2003   #8
When I grab the head geomtry and translate it up away from the torso, the spikes will snap back into place. They reappear when I place the head geometry back where it should be.
 
Old 07 July 2003   #9
Quote: Originally posted by zbgump
When I grab the head geomtry and translate it up away from the torso, the spikes will snap back into place. They reappear when I place the head geometry back where it should be.


I could take a look at your project if you can email it to me?
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Old 07 July 2003   #10
Thanks man! I sent it to you a minute a ago!
 
Old 07 July 2003   #11
Quote: Originally posted by zbgump
Thanks man! I sent it to you a minute a ago!


Hmm.. I didn't get it.. please zip the file and make it less than 10mb's
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Last edited by gmask : 07 July 2003 at 09:03 PM.
 
Old 07 July 2003   #12
I think I sent it from the wrong account. you should have it now.
 
Old 07 July 2003   #13
Quote: Originally posted by zbgump
I think I sent it from the wrong account. you should have it now.


I got it.. I'll let you know if I have any luck.
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Old 07 July 2003   #14
hi, try selecting your wrap object, and in the channel box you should see some extra attributes that maya has automatically created to manage the wrap... set the "Infl Type" to 1 instead of 2... this will create the wrap based on vertices not faces and has fixed the spikes problem for me in the past....

hope it helps

james
 
Old 07 July 2003   #15
I managed to get this thing to not spike but only by deleting all history on both objects and using one wrap node.

For some reason you have several in here and you should only need one wrap object ..I can see no reason to break the wrap object into several pieces.

EDIT> Setting the Influence Type to one did indeed fix the problem
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Last edited by gmask : 07 July 2003 at 04:57 AM.
 
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