7.0>Render speed & nice results

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Old 01 January 2008   #1
7.0>Render speed & nice results

I hope that we could get finally this new version working perfectly and, very important, with Renderama and Intel Slaves.
One of the main reasons to need Renderama is get benefit of all our computers. It seems obvious, but I said because now we can render with more or less quality GI images ( I would like to see some examples of architectural visualization using 7.0) but the trouble now is the speed. I mean, to get an image 6000x4000 of a no very complex scene, we need to divide in a lot of stripes and sometimes each strip could get an hour to render. Lot of time with no "VRAY results" talking about exteriors, for me impossible to get nice results in interiors.

I was testing the last months a lot (reading all about it, recommendations, etc) trying to find the equal proportion between quality and speed and, sincerely, I begin to lost the reasons to use EIU.

Whatīs your opinion about it ?
 
Old 01 January 2008   #2
For architectual renderings Vray seems to be the standard - I've seen some amazing work done with it. Quality and speed.

Take a look at this short thread - the quality and speed is nothing short of startling!
http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthr...?f=176&t=575780

I think EI probably can achieve spectacular results with it's GI but it's pretty much brute-force and will be slow. Add into that no mulit-processor support and it's a klunky solution in comparison to using something like Vray - which has many 100's, if not 1000's of users making sure it works well in the architectural area.

To get EI to look like that image (that's just the first one I found and not what I consider to be state-of-the-art) it requires much set-up and quality tweaks in lighting and materials - speed is needed to do these tweaks - if there is no speedy preview then quality will suffer.

Until EI can deliver very, very fast previews, you won't see that sort of quality from EI in great quantity.....it probably is capable but will require much experimentation from the user.
 
Old 01 January 2008   #3
Originally Posted by GAYATA: Lot of time with no "VRAY results" talking about exteriors, for me impossible to get nice results in interiors.

I was testing the last months a lot (reading all about it, recommendations, etc) trying to find the equal proportion between quality and speed and, sincerely, I begin to lost the reasons to use EIU.

Whatīs your opinion about it ?


I would consider adding additional software to my toolbox, if my current tools donīt allow me to get the results clients (or you) are looking for.

A while ago i just discovered that a famous Archviz EI user has completely switched to LW/Kray and if you see the Kray Gallery you can only imagine why. Absolutly amazing and very affordable, this Renderer (if you have a copy of LW around). I would IMHO contact him and ask for the pros and cons between EIAS and LW/KRay...

http://www.kraytracing.com/index.php?subpage=3&gal=1


Regards
Stefan

Last edited by futagoza : 01 January 2008 at 03:16 PM.
 
Old 01 January 2008   #4
"I would IMHO contact him and ask for the pros and cons between EIAS and LW/KRay..."
Please, it could be very interesting.
Really weīre using C4D+VRAYforC4D with great sucess in speed and pro quality.

I need reasons and exmples to continue, like the las 10 years, believing in this soft
 
Old 01 January 2008   #5
Check your PM please, iīve submitted the Info.

Well, with C4D and Vray, you might not need to look any further?! ;-)

Regards
Stefan
 
Old 01 January 2008   #6
v7 HDR slow wo Renderama

While the HDRI feature of v7 is good to have, I recently have to farm out a rendering job to a vray user because I am having problem using hdr maps in Renderama. w/o renderama, it would take a few hours on my main machine to do a hi-res render. So my 6 slaves are wasted and my deadline would not allow the long time to render and test render to get things right. And this is the 3rd time in a row that I have to use my vray guy to render a job.

Scene was a couple million polys of a WWII ship. While it would only take minutes to render in phong, that quality is kind of useless these days, especially considering the competition and expectation of clients.

And my vray guy gives me psd layer file that is 16bit depth, so I have lots and lots of room to tweak each pass before getting noise and artifacts. I think the EI layer shader is great, but outputting 8-bit images really limits the usefulness.

Hope 7.0.1 will address some of these problems, and they continue to refine/improve the GI engine before spending time on CA features. Otherwise what good will it do if the final render is not good enough?

-David
 
Old 01 January 2008   #7
Same opinion as Davis.
Weīre "working hard", NO "render fast" and nowadays, probably NO "retire young"

Were we want to go with EIU ?

Itīs no the first time that people is asking for where we want to go, what weīre expecting for EIU ?

If I have to choose, I donīt want CA and modeler. I want the specific value, the diference value of EIU in the past : best image in minor time in the market.

No in this thread, but I propos to open a new list to know the way that users want and of course, what EITG thinks that we want or they are expecting to give us. May be are no the same point of view. I want to know if the aspects no important for me are delaying the development of I need it.

I insist, more far of initial examples, I would like to see works made with 7.0 in architectural visualization to see the future with enough energy to follow.
 
Old 01 January 2008   #8
Originally Posted by GAYATA: I hope that we could get finally this new version working perfectly and, very important, with Renderama and Intel Slaves.


Hi Juan, all,

We're using Rama with Intel slaves here (mixing 12 Intels with 6 G5s) no problems at all here.

The Vray effect for interiors is of course, Photon mapping. We don't have this yet in the EIAS, but that doesn't mean it isn't possible to get high quality interior renderings - the following two images were done for a job that we got specifically because a company that uses Vray couldn't get the quality the client wanted (we saw their renders, a lot of the quality problem was down to anti-aliasing optimisation in Vray that was causing some really nasty edges). I'm sure Vray, of course, could produce the quality the client was after but it would probably have required more testing and tweaking that the 3D artists didn't have time to do (see what I did there .





And at the end of the day, if you or your clients aren't happy with the level of quality your software can provide, then you have no choice but to buy new software...

Lets remember Vray alone is more expensive then EIAS (by a whopping $4 .

Best,
Ian

PS. I should point out that the images above are near finals (I don't have the finished ones on my computer).

Edit: Render times (approx - this job was several months ago), top image: 3 hours at 8000px wide, bottom image 1 hour at 6000px wide.

Last edited by halfworld : 01 January 2008 at 10:03 AM.
 
Old 01 January 2008   #9
Hi Ian,

First of all, I donīt understand that Matt told me that now itīs impossible to get Intel Slaves with Renderama and that they are trying to fix asap. How could you do it?

Anyway, with all the respect that must have to you and for the rest of the users, I hahad used Electric during the last 10 years. I know the limitations of the app. The renders that you sent are in the limit of the quality that EIU couldd give us nowadays but, no for my clients, for me and the level that I need personally to give to my clients, are not enough. During tha last 8 years I thought that I would be better or worst using EIU, but I thought that I had the tool to get the best results in the market (speed, soft look quality and whatever you want. Today not. All of us, weīre seeing all the days a ton of images better what EIU can offer.
I donīt want to convice you of anything but, the reality of the market is what it is.
I want to know where we go with EIU. I could be patient, but joking " I want to retire young". I donīt want to wait for CA improvemnets for example. I want to know which are the focus idea of development at EITG. Then, if itīs clear, Iīll decide about it.
 
Old 01 January 2008   #10
Originally Posted by GAYATA: Hi Ian,

First of all, I donīt understand that Matt told me that now itīs impossible to get Intel Slaves with Renderama and that they are trying to fix asap. How could you do it?


Rama and Intel slaves = Perfect

Rama and OS X 10.5 = Broken (Fixed in 701 - coming very soon).


Ian
 
Old 01 January 2008   #11
Originally Posted by halfworld: Hi Juan, all,

I'm sure Vray, of course, could produce the quality the client was after but it would probably have required more testing and tweaking that the 3D artists didn't have time to do (see what I did there .



Heh...good one!
 
Old 01 January 2008   #12
Renderama + v7 hdr = no go

Here is what Matt said about Renderama on PC and hdr maps:

The .hdr type wasn’t registered properly in the PC version of Rama. This is fixed in 7.0.1

That is why I have not done any real projects w/ v7 HDR. Ordered a new 8-core, hope by the time it arrives, 7.0.1 is ready and I can finally do some work with HDR in v7.
 
Old 01 January 2008   #13
If I have to choose, I donīt want CA and modeler. I want the specific value, the diference value of EIU in the past : best image in minor time in the market.


That makes me sad.

EITG has been working hard on Rendering enhancements for the last several versions. They've given us Caustics, Subsurface Scattering, HDRI, and Multi-Pass output, all of which have been requested by users clamoring for the latest greatest rendering features.

Of course Maxwell has this feature or 'look' and VRay has 'that', but still the Electric Image Rendering System (EIRS) manages to keep up.

But what about Animation? What about Scaling Keyframes? What about snapping and aligning? What about instancing?

The Animation part of the EIAS has fallen dreadfully behind.

I don't begrudge the Arch-Viz crowd (or the Industrial Design guys) getting their goodies, but hey, XSI Foundation is starting to look pretty good to me. I've just downloaded Houdini Apprentice and guess what? It's power and depth is nothing short of amazing!

If the Arch-Viz crowd splits EIAS users by forcing the Animation folks to loose out, it will be sad.

You guys got your goodies, not to start any flame wars here, but I think you can be generous enough now, to let us get ours.
 
Old 01 January 2008   #14
I canīt agree more with plsyvjeucxfw. Us, the people that try to use the Animation part of Electric Image Animation System had waited and waited but the alternatives are growing fast out there. If I have to choose, I do want CA.
Thanks a lot.

FelixCat

Last edited by FelixCat : 01 January 2008 at 03:24 PM.
 
Old 01 January 2008   #15
Originally Posted by FelixCat: I canīt agree more with plsyvjeucxfw. Us, the people that try to use the Animation part of Electric Image Animation System had waited and waited but the alternatives are growing fast out there. If I have to choose, I do want CA and modeler.
Thanks a lot.

FelixCat


I don't want to be it this or that, I wish EITG could give us all. I am getting my feet wet in the CA side of things. I want better CA tools, but at the same time I want better rendering capabilities. If I could easily make my renders to look like a Vray interior, that would be fantastic. But I also want better tools for my CA efforts.
__________________
my site -- http://joelruiz.com
 
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