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Old 07-11-2006, 09:48 PM   #1
Igors
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Shade Lines

Hello, gentlemen

We are investigating "Shade Lines", and, be honest, we don't understand how it works. In any case we can't achieve what we need/want: shade them as thin accurate cylinders. What is your experience here ?
 
Old 07-12-2006, 07:56 AM   #2
Jens C. Möller
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Hello Igors,

I guess that "shade lines" uses some hybrid technique of shading a solid object an masks it with the line renders. Lines however have no thickness, so you need to define a size in pixels rathrer than world units. Close lines have the same thickness as far away lines. It would be desirable to shade them like cylinders though...

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Old 07-12-2006, 02:06 PM   #3
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What Jens said.

Could be tricky with ray-tracing math though. This is why Joe Alter uses Volumetric Rendering to do hair besides the fact that storing the data for millions of hairs isn't practical.
 
Old 07-12-2006, 03:55 PM   #4
Igors
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthernLights
Could be tricky with ray-tracing math though. This is why Joe Alter uses Volumetric Rendering to do hair besides the fact that storing the data for millions of hairs isn't practical.
We don't relate this with hairs (yet). But just interested in good lines.

- "Shade Lines" has no effect if lines has no vertices normals (as, BTW, Ubershape creates);

- if normals are here, "Shade Lines" uses them same as for normal geometry. So, wireframe = thin flat ribbons sticked to original surface

Hmmm... we don't like that. Thinking...
 
Old 07-12-2006, 10:58 PM   #5
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Ah, but which way do you point the normal?
(And what is the sound of one hand clapping?)

If they are to be treated like cylinders then they have an infinite number of normals. You couldn't simply aim the normal at the camera because they'd never have any fall off.

But I'm much more concerned with memory consumption. One line consumes a minimum of 56 bytes (24 doubles and 2 longs). 1 Meg is about 17k lines roughly.
 
Old 07-13-2006, 08:59 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthernLights
Ah, but which way do you point the normal?
(And what is the sound of one hand clapping?)

If they are to be treated like cylinders then they have an infinite number of normals. You couldn't simply aim the normal at the camera because they'd never have any fall off.
Theoretically lines' normals should be inherited from surface (as wireframe does). But it's just "better than nothing"

Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthernLights
But I'm much more concerned with memory consumption. One line consumes a minimum of 56 bytes (24 doubles and 2 longs). 1 Meg is about 17k lines roughly.
Alas, practically it takes in 2-3 times more bytes. But in any case hairs render is not for standard phong.
 
Old 07-13-2006, 06:16 PM   #7
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Aha, clear now (2 wireframe baskets are attached )
Attached Images
File Type: jpg SuperLines.jpg (80.5 KB, 75 views)
 
Old 07-14-2006, 08:10 AM   #8
Jens C. Möller
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Wow. Now THAT is cool! How did you do this?

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Old 07-14-2006, 12:12 PM   #9
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new shader (freebie )
 
Old 07-14-2006, 12:40 PM   #10
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new shader (freebe )


 
Old 07-14-2006, 03:26 PM   #11
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Superlines will be posted on Paralumino's website soon. Keep checking in.
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Old 07-15-2006, 07:06 AM   #12
Hiddenman.fr
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Hey Igors as you seem to investigate EIAS world go to that link:
http://graphics.pixar.com/index.html

I'm sure you will find interesting informations to develop new tools for EIAS.

Glad to see you work hard for us.
 
Old 07-15-2006, 10:02 AM   #13
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Hi, Stephane
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hiddenman.fr
Hey Igors as you seem to investigate EIAS world go to that link:
http://graphics.pixar.com/index.html

I'm sure you will find interesting informations to develop new tools for EIAS.
Thx, but for us a good idea never comes from "a cool link", but from real practice and from relations with people. Well, same SuperLines for example. During writing a new tool (based on ideas of heretic Uwe) we've noticed that output shading is very poor. We tried to learn, investiagate etc.

So, instead of referring to pixar, tell us your understanding/viewing of things/problems, and, maybe, something interested and usable can be implemented (chances are not very high though )
 
Old 07-15-2006, 10:36 AM   #14
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so, igors, do you care to tell us which of my heretic ideas catched your interest?
(i just hope the inquisition will never knock on my door)

btw, superlines looks really nice and cool. nice addition to trestle.
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Old 07-15-2006, 11:53 AM   #15
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Hi, Uwe
Quote:
Originally Posted by bronco
..which of my heretic ideas catched your interest?
You'll see yourself (we plan to send you beta next week)
 
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