FR2 for C4D - what is happening?

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Old 11 November 2005   #1
FR2 for C4D - what is happening?

I thought Final Render Stage 2 for C4D was scheduled for the end of september, does anybody know what is happening and when it is likely to ship?
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Old 11 November 2005   #2
sacraficing time for perfection at the moment, mr. edwin will post updates soon =)


*beta tester*
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Old 11 November 2005   #3
well i hope he dont gets über-perfect, even c4d which is rock solid has small bucks in .0 releases-

small updates after the release dont hurt anybody i guess, as long as it is not like maxwell fiasko....

i could have needed it so urgently this week to render better GI, hope we will see it soon:-)))

cheers
stefan
 
Old 11 November 2005   #4
thank you Mr. Betatester
can you tell me if the interface for the material node system is the same as expresso or has it received any cosmetic and ergonomic improvements, thanks,

Peter
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Old 11 November 2005   #5
Originally Posted by lllab: well i hope he dont gets über-perfect, even c4d which is rock solid has small bucks in .0 releases-

small updates after the release dont hurt anybody i guess, as long as it is not like maxwell fiasko....

i could have needed it so urgently this week to render better GI, hope we will see it soon:-)))

cheers
stefan



maxwell communication is quite a fiasco, but so far the soft isnt released yet, so lets give them some credit, then when 1.0 will be officialy out, that'll be another story, and i hope not, time to yell...
 
Old 11 November 2005   #6
Totally agree with you Vesalus. And according to the latest news communicated today by NextLimit's crew, the beast is gonna be damn powerfull...

Last edited by v.montel : 11 November 2005 at 07:54 PM.
 
Old 11 November 2005   #7
the final MW might be well and powerfull lets see, but i paid for a beta with constant(!) updates and a module for c4d (coming out in 1 month-that was nov2004).

now we didnt get any updates for a long time, and we never recieved a working plugin for c4d, it is soo buggy that it isnt worth doing anything real with it.

FR2 is not really a new product, its a very solid renderengine for years, so i have not so much fear with FR. and i am sure the integration is done very well. i just meant i am happy with a 99% solid plug. there is room for bugfixes in the next months.

i am just at the point that i really would love to see my FR2, also needed it urgently for recent jobs...

edwin, lets start the FR2 fever for cinema:-)

cheers
stefan
 
Old 11 November 2005   #8
Originally Posted by lllab: i could have needed it so urgently this week to render better GI, hope we will see it soon:-)))


me too. I had a panicky client remindng me there was a $1/2 Billion project riding on my renderings, and I was behind as I watched AR paint its white line oh-so-slow. Stressed? No, why should I be. Heck, they should take another year to perfect the FR2 product. I wouldn't want to hand any work (ontime work) with any imperfections.
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Old 11 November 2005   #9
I wanna know whats hapening too.. the silence is brutal...
 
Old 11 November 2005   #10
Originally Posted by Ernest Burden: I had a panicky client remindng me there was a $1/2 Billion project riding on my renderings...


I need more of those type of clients. $$$
 
Old 11 November 2005   #11
just thought I'd chime in and point out to those few who kept asking for maxon to make some mention ages aback about whether rendering stuff was being done or not, that this and Maxwell are prime examples of why maxon doesn't pre announce things like this typically, sure gets you frustrated
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Kai Pedersen
 
Old 11 November 2005   #12
Originally Posted by rgwarren: I need more of those type of clients. $$$


Don't get the impression that my piece of the supposed half-billion dollars is a big percentage. While it's probably true, they tell me these things to get me to care about their deadline--see, other people have all this money in play, so you (who are not in line for much of it) should care more. I'm just getting a regular rendering fee (though I charge a lot). The problem with the slow AR rendering is it has kept me from being able to do a few extra pictures the client wanted, so it is actually losing me money. I could be buying more CPUs to use NetRender, but it's not the same as having a quicker, quality result.

Originally Posted by Kai Pedersen: this and Maxwell are prime examples of why maxon doesn't pre announce things like this typically


Point well taken, though not happily.
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Old 11 November 2005   #13
hope I don't get a huge retailiation for making this comment but what you said really surprised me Ernest, and i have hear it before, but I especially thought with a Render artist of your Calibre, that such a comment was unbelievable.

Quote: The problem with the slow AR rendering is it has kept me from being able to do a few extra pictures the client wanted, so it is actually losing me money.



Man, now I've faced the gun on a lot of renders for aniamtions and such myself too, even had to compromise quality a little to get a render done in time, but those have always been because of mistakes I've made like forgetting to change a light or show an object etc, or because of changes the director/client has made led to re rendering over and over until the was simply no time to keep the quality originally established.

Its our duty to know how to give the client what they want in the time they set out, and I'd never blame the renderer for not getting us there.

I was faking bouncing light and Ambient occlusion way before I had AO and GI, and Transluceny before SSS, ink effects before sketch and toon. I can;t thinkof a time I've ever siad I couldn't provide a client with something "because of my rendering software" When something can't be delivered, its the our faults as the commercial artists not the tools we use. I'm currently fixing up and finishing a project a few other C4D users workedon before me, and the last individual who worked on it, was comprimising the quality of a lot of things, particularly AA to get the job done, but the reduciton in AA caused a lot of problems with flickering, and I was able to reset those settings, tidy thigns up in other ways and actually manage to get some to render just as fast so they still make the deadline. Never heard a painter say they couldn't paint an image because the brush they had was too course.
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Quote: "Until you do what you believe in, how do you know whether you believe in it or not?" -Leo Tolstoy
Kai Pedersen
 
Old 11 November 2005   #14
lets go back to topic;-)

-where is FR annoucement:-)))
dynamic realism betatester said it will be soon something siad from Mr Edwin.

i find this "whenisitfinallyreleaysedgame" amusing...
makes wirk not so boring

cheers
stefan
 
Old 11 November 2005   #15
Originally Posted by lllab: lets go back to topic;-)


Let's get back to what Kai said


Originally Posted by Kai Pedersen: a Render artist of your Calibre, that such a comment was unbelievable.


I'm trying to take your comments in good humor.

I do not mean to blame my software for being unable to pump out additional renderings...except for the fact that rendering out a new view at even the 3000 lines I do will simply take more hours that it used to with Lightscape (where the GI was pre-calc'ed for the entire model). Also, I am not such an 'old hand' at C4D as you. But I was doing all that stuff 'back in the day' before GI even existed.


Problem--C4D does not do bucket rendering, and a tiled camera with GI can show seams, for the same reason that animation across multi CPUs will show flickering--different core random seeds. So the only real solution is to render on a single CPU per image, at the full render time.

Problem--even with tweeking, to render an interior with many lights and lots of glass takes many hours. Many hours. Realizing this, and going back and putting in fakes, takes time, too. How many hours, exactly? It would be good to know when the client asks you to promise you will get something done on time. I know about my part, but am still not good at figuring out how long C4D will take.

Problem--renderings done using NetRender do not have any method for determining where you are in the process. None. So you send a picture off to another machine to render and then the next morning it isn't completed. What to do? Is it going to be another 10 minutes or 10 hours? At least in the GUI you can see how much is done. But I'm only allowed to know on one image per licence--the rest (and I have the unlimited NR licence) is guesswork. Hard to base delivery dates when you will be rendering completely blind.

Problem--AR does not have a flicker-free, sample-accumulation problem free method for rendering animation, except 'stochastic'.


So yes, it is the artist and not the tool, but not all tools are perfect. I am waiting for FR2 to hopefully address some of the C4D shortcomings--aren't you, Kai? I had the experience of sitting here watching the white lines trace down my screen long past when I thought they would be done (despite my efforts at time-tweeks) while my promised delivery time came and went. My fault? Of course it is.

Originally Posted by Kai Pedersen: Never heard a painter say they couldn't paint an image because the brush they had was too course.


Ever been a painter?

Ever seen the lines at Pearl Paint as all the painters cue up to buy the better brush that will finally make their work what it could be? Sure its the artist and not the tool, but I can paint a lot better with a $60 sable than one of those black plastic 'brushes' that come in kid's little watercolor sets.
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