WIP: Hi-poly Multiracial (Generic) Female - (Nudity)

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  07 July 2005
i hope that doesnt sound too harsh but i dont understand why you are already dealing with hdri renderings, complex materials and hair, if there is quite much left to do about the anatomy of the model (head and body).. Maybe you should go back to modelling, use some references in the viewport and look for anatomic mistakes before going into finetuning materials and stuff?
 
  07 July 2005
Hi AtmaWeapon. I know it's hard but Powermaennchen is right. You gotta work on the anatomy, proportions, definitions first. Right now it doesn't even look like a zombie. For concrete critique (like draw-overs maybe), you might want to post orthogonals. For instance, the eyes are way to far apart and the nose is too low. The chin seems to be very tiny, though this could be the perspective. Btw, portrait shots work better in tele, try 135mm or even more, while pulling back your camera of course.

I don't think it's appropriate for you to worry about those high-end technical stuff when your subject is not ready yet.

I know it's not nice of me to say this, but praises won't get you any further.
 
  07 July 2005
Porportions Check

Hey guys, thanks for the crits! Thats what this forum is for. Could you guys be a little more specific about whats wrong? I did some checks with reference images and I really can't find that much wrong with my porportions.

Quote: Maybe you should go back to modelling, use some references in the viewport and look for anatomic mistakes before going into finetuning materials and stuff?

So the original low poly cage was modeled with that divinci thing and then later I made some changes to it. I know the arm is a little short, but I did make a conceous effor to make them a bit shorter than they are suppose to be since I found that when I did make them the right size, they always seemed too langky when I lowered the shoulders in my previous character models.

Quote: For instance, the eyes are way to far apart and the nose is too low

I can kind of see what you mean by the eyes. Being a bit wide, I will probably make some changes later. I don't really know what you mean by the nose though. Do you mean the shape? Its kind of a button nose I know. Would you suggest something else?



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  07 July 2005
something i notice in the side view is the jaw line. It goes up to the ear, not past it.

Like so: (see the red)


After you make that adjustment, maybe move the ear, and jawline next to the ear, back a little.
 
  07 July 2005
Quote: It goes up to the ear, not past it.
Cool, thanks. I pushed the jaw line foward a bit.
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  07 July 2005
hi again AW, it's really nice to see you don't take critics and suggestions in the wrong way. I will post an image when I get home with comments and suggestions, but for a start you could carefully check the lips of the model, in the comparison pic the lower lip loos like it had some sort of indent/ concavity where it should be he other way around (rounded) Another suggestion is to give your model a shiny material instead of a flat one (a blinn or phong would do). This will help you identify the troubling spots better. And last but not least, get rid of Davinci's thing, you're modelling a female, that image can be great for modelling males but in reality there are several subtle (along with the obvius ) differences between the male and female body. Go to www.fineart.sk and get yourself some real references, they have lot's of med-to-hi res images for free, with plenty of body types to choose from. Anyway, your skills with the late part of the project seem really good but it will be a wasted effort if you don't pay enough attention to the modelling. Good luck mate

PS: I almost forgot, the ears need to be separated from the head, they look attached rigth now, they should flow out from the cheek and neck, with the back part getting away quite a lot from the head

PPS: I've run into an arguement with a co-worker, can you sort it by telling us if that is Natalie Portman on teh reference shot? thanks a lot
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Last edited by Feeank : 07 July 2005 at 07:35 PM.
 
  07 July 2005
It kinda looks like you modeled too strictly from the orhtagonal views, becuase it looks much more normal in the othro views than it does in perspective. It's one of those things that happens SOO many times in cg....somthing is technically 100% accurate, but it looks completely wrong. Just my thoughts. One specific thing which I think needs more work is the nose. it looks way to thin and boney. Good luck on the rest of it!
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  07 July 2005
Quote: but for a start you could carefully check the lips of the model, in the comparison pic the lower lip loos like it had some sort of indent/ concavity where it should be he other way around (rounded)
Yeah this is actually a displacement map problem. The concavity doesn't isn't there in the higher poly output.

Quote: Go to www.fineart.sk and get yourself some real references, they have lot's of med-to-hi res images for free, with plenty of body types to choose from.
Thanks for the link. These are great.

Quote: I almost forgot, the ears need to be separated from the head, they look attached rigth now, they should flow out from the cheek and neck
Hmmmm.. What do you mean? Any reference pics for this?

Thanks a bunch dude!
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  07 July 2005
Quote: It kinda looks like you modeled too strictly from the orhtagonal views, becuase it looks much more normal in the othro views than it does in perspective. It's one of those things that happens SOO many times in cg
Hmmm thats funny of you to say, because those 2 comparrison shots are actually from a camera. Oh well. But your totally right about modeling in orthognal views. ZBrush doesn't allow modeling while in perspective. Bleeeh, maybe the next version will.
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  07 July 2005
Originally Posted by AtmaWeapon:
Hmmmm.. What do you mean? Any reference pics for this?

Thanks a bunch dude!


Actually the one you're using is good enough, ears open wide to the front of the body so they pick soundwaves coming up primarily from that direction. This changes a bit from one person to another but not that much. Rigth now i can't see anything form the ear structure in the front view, but in the ref pic you can clearly see those elements in her ear.
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  07 July 2005
Post Small Changes

Quote: Actually the one you're using is good enough, ears open wide to the front of the body so they pick soundwaves coming up primarily from that direction. This changes a bit from one person to another but not that much. Rigth now i can't see anything form the ear structure in the front view, but in the ref pic you can clearly see those elements in her ear.
Awesome, thanks for the tip... you got a sharp eye. Thats two major issues you've helped me with. Yeah I guess I was trying to avoid monkey ears and got a little overboard.



Also, you can see the jaw line is changed in this picks. I aslo used those reference photos in that link to change a few minor things. But to tell you the truth. I didn't change that much at all. The changes were all really really minor. The major deviation from the reference pictures is that her neck is much skinnier, but I always though Uma Thermon's neck and body shape was very attractive. And she's diffinitely got a thinner neck.
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  07 July 2005
Hi. I'm busy sorting out my apartment and stuff so didn't manage to get back at you earlier. In fact I don't have too much time surfing around so here are a only few quick hints to get you started.

Look at the attached image. That's what I meant about the eyes. Usually there's about one eye's width between the eyes (and the head is about 5 eyes' width on the height of the eyes). It's not an absolute rule but a good guideline.

The eyes themself are defomed. The inner upper curve seems to have a dent. You may want to check out Linda Bergkvist's tutorial about Painting an eye.

The nasal bridge should look better if it doesn't become narrow and flat upwards. The nasal wings don't "flow/melt" right into the nasal bridge.

Also the shading seems to suggest 2 bulges on the cheeks which look wrong.

The upper part of the skull is bigger/ wider than the jaw. I know you are going to do hair but a rounder tip of the head should look more appealing.

Check out these anatomical guides too:
http://www.fineart.sk/show.php?w=39 (male head)
http://www.fineart.sk/show.php?w=71 (female head)

Study anatomy so you'd at least see if something feels wrong and what to check to fix it. Good luck.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg multiracialfacecrit.jpg (11.9 KB, 54 views)

Last edited by wanzai : 07 July 2005 at 03:32 PM.
 
  07 July 2005
Quote: Look at the attached image. That's what I meant about the eyes. Usually there's about one eye's width between the eyes (and the head is about 5 eyes' width on the height of the eyes). It's not an absolute rule but a good guideline.
Yeah I checked this out and did a bit of editing. I actually used this rule to make the low poly cage, but the lack of perspective distortion in ZBrush, kind of screws with this. I also reformed the nasal bridge, this was actually something that was bugging me a lot to.

Quote:
Also the shading seems to suggest 2 bulges on the cheeks which look wrong.

Your right about the cheeks. This wasn't there before, but its fixed now.

Quote:
Study anatomy so you'd at least see if something feels wrong and what to check to fix it. Good luck.
Ha, I've actually taken a figure drawing class at school... Sculpting in ortho is compeletely different than just drawing.
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  07 July 2005
i dont want to discourage you but you need to work on your anatomy, proportions, and topology. id suggest drawing alot from refrence. learn to start with form and then move into the details.

i hate to say this but id scrap this model and start over after ive learned proper anatomy/proportions. if you keep at it you will improve but make sure you look at your work with an indifferent eye and crit your own stuff. good luck in the future.

Last edited by JaMo : 07 July 2005 at 10:47 PM.
 
  08 August 2005
Red face Tweaked Geometry

Originally Posted by JaMo: i dont want to discourage you but you need to work on your anatomy, proportions, and topology. id suggest drawing alot from refrence. learn to start with form and then move into the details.

i hate to say this but id scrap this model and start over after ive learned proper anatomy/proportions. if you keep at it you will improve but make sure you look at your work with an indifferent eye and crit your own stuff. good luck in the future.


Thanks for the crit. Yeah I know my porprotions are bit messed up. I did kind of rushed job on the model and believe me, I've got plenty of stuff for porportions and figure drawing left over from my class. I guess its my fault for not using it. But why would I want to crit my own stuff? You guys do such a better job. Plus its really hard to do the correct porportions in ZBrush. The whole ortho thing really screws with you after a while. If you get a model to look right, it actually looks really F'ed up in ZBrush ortho view!

As for starting over, since ZBrush allows such easy tweaking of model, I probably won't do that. In any case, I tweaked the eyes a lot and edited the bone structure.

I think the jaw bone needs a little more work and perhaps the cheep bones? Perhaps make the nose thinner?

I also seem to have lost that childish and international look I was going for. She looks a lot more caucasian now. What do you guys think? Keep those crits coming!



PS does anyone know how to share maps in VRay? I keep getting these holes when I use distributed rendering.
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