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Old 07-04-2005, 11:58 AM   #1
rob-beddall
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Zombie - wip

hey!!
here is a model i am working on at the minute.
eventually he will be a zombie but for now i'm just modelling him as a normal person as most of the zombie stuff will be in the texture map.
so far i face a half finished face. but all comments are welcome.

so....can any one see any major problems with it yet?

cheers!!
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Old 07-04-2005, 01:44 PM   #2
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hey!!

just a quick update.
c'mon guys....don't be shy.

cheers!!
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Old 07-04-2005, 02:16 PM   #3
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well i like the topology of the face. its hard to crit on it thou' since you didnt post any concept or reference 'where' you want to go with that face. Its a solid mesh, but i'd recomment to at least make a scribble of how the zombie shall look like later on, because if you want to, for example, make pieces of his face rotten so the teeth can be seen through the skin and such you'll have to include such things in your loop setup.
 
Old 07-04-2005, 05:07 PM   #4
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hey!!

dunno if i would be allowed to post the concept as it's not mine.
it's for a test to try and get a job on a mod team and i dunno if they have releases their concepts.
here is a quick update showing the mesh a little better.

cheers!!
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Old 07-04-2005, 05:30 PM   #5
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this is looking very good so far, i think this is some of your best topology, nice work! I take it he will be a more, erm, "fresh" zombie? or will you be adding some assymetrical geometry to the face? keep it up!
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Old 07-04-2005, 05:36 PM   #6
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Hey it's Rob's Zombie
 
Old 07-04-2005, 05:37 PM   #7
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hey!!

thanks. yeah he will be more of a fresh zombie.
more along the lines of the zombies in Dawn of the dead, than rotting zombie.

just had a look at your portfolio. i love the 22 poly handgrenade. classic.

cheers!!
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Old 07-04-2005, 05:39 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragot
Hey it's Rob's Zombie



yes. well done hehe

cheers!!
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Old 07-05-2005, 06:47 AM   #9
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hey!!

just another quick update.
the body area is just roughed out and needs refining and optimising.
next the legs
cheers!!
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Old 07-05-2005, 11:14 AM   #10
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hey!!
another quick update.
just need to sort the flow lines out and do the feet. then add the detail to specific places.

what is the general concensus on flow lines?
i decompiled some of the HL2 models and they look really crap.
just like big blocks of squares. hardly any flow lines at all.
but i was always told that flowlines are majorly important.

what are your opinions on this?

cheers!!
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Old 07-05-2005, 11:59 AM   #11
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Flow lines / Edge Loops (whatever you want to call them) are important for animation, probably less so in low-poly work, for example, is your face going to animate ? yes, then you have edge loops defined around your mouth and eyes for that, if not, why waste time defining those structures, when you could utilise the polys elsewhere, to some extent there will always be some sort of edge loop type structure about the face, it just a solution that works really well, even if it's only used to just define the facial areas. You have edges in the correct places for the elbows, wrists, and knees so that they would animate correctly, you've considered edge flow here probably without realising, i.e. you know the edges are needed for animation, so you build them in, it's a standard 'given' meshflow organisational structure.

However, I think you may have have problems with the body jacket, where it meets the shoulders, or rather lies on top of the shoulders, unless animation doesn't require arms to go higher than shoulder level, or you risk collapsing all that geometry. It's a fairly gridified mesh and so works well, imo, although you could optimise many areas, although it doesn't look so far your at the stage of optimisation as yet.

How many polys do you have to play with ?
 
Old 07-05-2005, 12:09 PM   #12
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hey!!

the poly limit is 3000 (tri's)

are you saying it is good to have a mesh that looks like a grid?
i was always taught that if it looks like a chess board then it's bad.
and that was from some one who has the same job as you ( lead artist).
you are right about the shoulders.
i was following the reference and not putting much thought into how it will deform yet.
until i looked at the HL2 models.
areas i'm concernd about are the crotch area mainly.
i always put flow lines coming out from the crotch.
but then the HL2 model was just all squares with no flow lines.
it looked like he had just fell straight through a cattle grid or something.
strange.
think i will do it the way i usually do it and see how it turns out.
cheers!!
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Old 07-05-2005, 12:35 PM   #13
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Hi,

Grid Type Meshes work very well for animation I've found, and suit lower polycount characters generally, however if you have as many as 3000 polys to play with, you can start bringing the detail up some, and define the edge loops a lot more, it really all depends on the rigging / engine, etc, the more you can do in the rig, the more you can define the edge loops within your model, but you need to remember processer computing time, let's say (stupid example!!), you have a character with two bones, character has 1000 verts, lower bone is weighted to the bottom half of the body, let's say 500 verts, and upper body is weighted to second bone, 500 verts, in a game engine 1st bone knows it is weighted to bottom bone, but also computes that it isn't weighted to the other 500 verts, now multiply that computing for a typical skeletal rig for say 20-25 bones, it's a lot to process, 3000 polys is a nice number to work with, just make sure you use that detail where your going to notice it, I'd always err on the side of bringing a mesh in slightly lower if I can, and be sure that the silhouette is the most important, lower polycounts are easier to manage and easier to texture, imo. However, using your gridified mesh structure, your already off to a good start, you can define edge loops thereafter if you need to, I'd be interested to see a screengrab of the mesh you talk about ?

Here's an older model of mine, following the grid-like structure : -



ok, I think I waffled and didn't really say much there.. , a grid like mesh is good, for definable details you need to go more the edge-loop route, grid like meshes work particularly well for clothed characters.

Regards
 
Old 07-05-2005, 01:44 PM   #14
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hello

i think we must have different views on what a grid type mesh is.
the model you showed looks similar to the way i was taught.
i have attached an example of a model i made by me and the model from HL2.
it may be just that the HL2 model is made of triangles, but it just looks to me as though the mesh has no "flow".
for example, the critch area on the HL2 model looks really messy. and looks as though no thought has gone into deformation. ( i could be wrong and most probably am)

i know ther is no right or wrong way when it comes to these things but i would just like to know peoples opinions. i personally prefer the way my mesh is modelled over the HL2 one. (but i would because i made it
the mesh on the left is only 2000 tri's tho. the HL2 one is 3000 (the limit i'm workig to now)

thanks
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Old 07-05-2005, 02:00 PM   #15
S. J. Tubbrit
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Oh, wait, do you mean triangulated rather than quadrangulated, rather than mesh layout, I've rejigged the piccie you attached and removed the obvious triangulated edges, leaving only the quad layout behind, as you can see the edge flow is quite apparent and will work well with animation, every game engine will triangulate a mesh at runtime, if not beforehand (at exporter stage, etc), it may be it was all quads when the original artist created it, and upon export into HL2 it get's triangulated, I assume because your accessing the HL2 models your getting them straight out of the game anyway in their triangulated state.



Anyway, assuming we're both on the same subject now! , then building all quads can be an easy way to layout your model quickly, however, I do recommend tri usage wherever possible, triangles are your best friend in games modelling, if you master tri's in your modelling flow, you'll get much, much more detailed models out, I also currently have a work in progress Zombie (hence the interest your thread! ), and mine comes in at 3000 tri's too, I've utilised a mixture of quad modelling and triangulation that 'I' can control rather than an engine, this way I can visualise 'exactly' how my model will look ingame (rather than edge's getting flipped in the wrong direction and so on), and because I've essentially created the whole model with Tri's, I've been able to put a lot of detail into the model, including all toes, all fingers, bone detail, ribcage detail, pelvis detail, facial detail, it's all there, I'll post a wip in the next couple of days once I've refined it to showcase what I mean, but yeah, I'd recommend you at least give some triangulation a 'tri', oh groan, bad pun, I mean try!

Regards
 
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