CGTalk > Challenges > FXWARS Challenge
Login register
Thread Closed share thread « Previous Thread | Next Thread »
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 05-26-2005, 04:46 AM   #1
michaeljr
FX Hack
Michael JR.
Digital Artist
mJRworld.com
Chicago Subs, USA
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 269
FXWars! Car Crash : mJR (not sure yet)

well I missed the last 2, one cause I was working on a short (which I never finished in time for a film festival) and another because of a trip out of town. so this time I'm in, if I can finish what I want to do.

this is something I really enjoy messing around with. I've done a little work like this on a past job an XBOX game called Hunter Reedemer. for all 2 of you that have played it, when you smash something on screen, I smashed it in MAX first... but nothing on this level of detail required of this challenge, most of that was just an unbroken model and broken model with little or no animation inbetween.

I feel a bit behind, all you guys have already started on cool cars and sets, while I'm still in the process of figuring out how to smash and rip metal.

I have a few test examples of what I have been R&Ding. http://www.mjrworld.com/fxwars/fxwars.html

I've read through the instructions a few times and haven't quite figured out what is considered what? what would be a simulation and what would be hard sience and so on. because off the top of my head I don't know of any sofware, such as LW, MAX, MAYA, or SI that supports metal simulations. such that included settings for metal strength and density, stress points, welds, bolts, rivots, fracturing, bending, warping, friction and heat damage, and anything else that goes along with metals. (I'm no scientist) and I don't have any real programing skills to develop a pluing for MAX that can simulate that. (if only I could get my bro-in-law to code a metal plugin we would be set, but he's busy making a muscle plugin for MAYA. www.cometdigital.com)

so after exhausting every single step process I could think of from particles, to cloth, dynamics, to this and that over the last few days (many sleepless nights) I started to combine a bit of this and a bit of that and worked out a multi level process of simulating weak points in the metal, then the metal skin, then the impact area using dynamics, springs, fractures, hard bodies, cloth, morphs, and then extra dynamic simulation on top of that. trying my best to get as much actual damage to be done with dynamics and not by hand. I call it Brute Force Animation.. old school style

well CC are welcome, I'm going to in the next day attempt to figure out a process for solid metal pieces like a car frame and work on combining multiple setups for things such as a bumper, hood piece, and a part of a fender. then after that, depending on time will determing if I go to an extreme like a high speed crash or do a smaller crash like a fender bender and composiste that into some live action footage.

anyway, there are some avis here so check them out
http://www.mjrworld.com/fxwars/fxwars.html

thanks and good luck to everyone, and most important, just have fun learning and doing.....
__________________
michael JR.
mJRworld.com

FXWars!CarCrash! Entry #8

Last edited by michaeljr : 05-26-2005 at 04:49 AM.
 
Old 05-26-2005, 05:19 AM   #2
jigu
FlakMaster!
 
jigu's Avatar
portfolio
Jignesh Jariwala
3D/VFX Artist
Freelance
surat, India
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,504
Send a message via Yahoo to jigu
hey michael i have just checked ur test that looks awsome.what software do u use? 3ds max?
__________________
www.jhjariwala.com
Demoreel 2012
 
Old 05-26-2005, 05:22 AM   #3
michaeljr
FX Hack
Michael JR.
Digital Artist
mJRworld.com
Chicago Subs, USA
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 269
thanks, yes, 3dsMAX 7
__________________
michael JR.
mJRworld.com

FXWars!CarCrash! Entry #8
 
Old 05-26-2005, 05:30 AM   #4
jigu
FlakMaster!
 
jigu's Avatar
portfolio
Jignesh Jariwala
3D/VFX Artist
Freelance
surat, India
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,504
Send a message via Yahoo to jigu
Quote:
Originally Posted by michaeljr
thanks, yes, 3dsMAX 7


very well done test!!
i must keep my eyes on this thread.
__________________
www.jhjariwala.com
Demoreel 2012
 
Old 05-26-2005, 09:29 AM   #5
BloodHo
New Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 19
I think those tests look just amazing. Great job and i really gonna keep my eye on this, and of course other entries too. Too bad i don't have own computer now which i could use to participate to this challenge. So anyway michaeljr, any change you could reveal your secrets how you did those great effects after this competition is done ?
 
Old 05-26-2005, 09:40 AM   #6
jigu
FlakMaster!
 
jigu's Avatar
portfolio
Jignesh Jariwala
3D/VFX Artist
Freelance
surat, India
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,504
Send a message via Yahoo to jigu
Quote:
Originally Posted by BloodHo
I think those tests look just amazing. Great job and i really gonna keep my eye on this, and of course other entries too. Too bad i don't have own computer now which i could use to participate to this challenge. So anyway michaeljr, any change you could reveal your secrets how you did those great effects after this competition is done ?


i personaly sent pm to him.but he haven't seen and checked pm yet.so i m asking here.how did u done those test with 3ds max7? it will gr8 to know more.
__________________
www.jhjariwala.com
Demoreel 2012
 
Old 05-26-2005, 05:18 PM   #7
michaeljr
FX Hack
Michael JR.
Digital Artist
mJRworld.com
Chicago Subs, USA
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 269
I hope it doesn't make me a jerk, but I don't want to give away to much of my, I guess secrets, before the competition is over. If I can get a bit of an edge against those who can model an awesome car, which I have done very little of, I need to hold on to a few thing. After the challenge is over I will have no problem putting together some tutorials on what I'm doing.

for now I will give you a few hints without getting into details.

1st everything I'm doing is all within the ability of anyone that owns software that supports rigidbody dymanics and cloth. there are free cloth systems out there for most programs. I'm not programing or scripting anything, just using tools I have already.

2nd I'll save everyone some time by telling them that softbody and cloth alone will NOT produce crumpled metal because there is no way to tell those things that you wan the object to FREEZE or BECOME SOLID at this momemt of time. A softbody will try to return to it's original shape and a cloth will continue to move with gravity and motion. if the cloth had a STARCH setting, then that would work. if you could say this cloth is solid until hit and then it deforms, but when this much energy is dispersed, this it freeze again. but that will not duplicate stress and most important, a cars pre determined weak points and crumple zones. a cloth will just turn into a piece of cloth instantly all over.

3rd think out side of the box. since there is no METAL button, you have to think of ways to simulate what happens to the metal. think of the metal like a character. at least that's what I"m doing. so I'm rigging the character (metal skin) and giving it limits on what it can and cannot do, then simulating within those limits to move it around.

and 4th since there is no one button solution, sometimes it may take more than one object to smash something to look like one object caused it. think about those cars in Jurassic Park that smash themselves and make it look like the T-Rex is hitting it. well there is no T-Rex, it's CG, but the car smashes it self by using wires and things to pull the car into itself.

some good movies to look at and get info would be the 4 disc Pearl Harbor, Star Wars EP1 making of disc, oh there is a movie by Stallone (forgot the name) where he races F1 cars, crappy movie, awesome wreck scenes done in MAX. and another movie, can't think of the name right now, where the kids beat death and death hunts them down, the second movie of the series has a huge massive crash. Matrox 2 crash scene, but that's hyper real slow mo.

hope this helps a bit. maybe I should post this in the tips tricks area also

oh and START SMALL, sure it may not be as cool as smashing up your nice, cool, high res car model, but if you just start right off, you are going to be pulling your hair out in 5 minutes when it looks like crap. take a bumper off and figure that out first, then the hood, that your time, start small, think small, write things down, do it like the big boys do, start with simple shapes and objects, get the process worked out first before blowing time on the high res stuff. it's a whole lot faster and easier to recalculate dynamics on a dozen simple box objects than it is a 10,000 poly car.
__________________
michael JR.
mJRworld.com

FXWars!CarCrash! Entry #8

Last edited by michaeljr : 05-26-2005 at 05:24 PM.
 
Old 05-26-2005, 06:09 PM   #8
BloodHo
New Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 19
Heh of course it doesnt make you a jerk. Atleast in my opinion. That's why i asked if you could reveal something after this competition
Thanks for those hints, gotta write them up and start testing soon as i get new hardware.
Good luck for competition!
 
Old 05-26-2005, 09:04 PM   #9
bRuNuShky
Dominus Inkisitur
 
bRuNuShky's Avatar
Marcelo Stanger
3D Wiver
Uruguay
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 107
Send a message via MSN to bRuNuShky
Wink Great Tips ;)

Hi there Michal.. I saw your animations test and look great...impresive

Is my first time making real stuf with reactor .. I dont know If I can make something but I have learned a lot with this contest ... but you look like you have manage this for a time ...

Well with your tips I will make some new test and wait what happend
__________________
W.I.P. "Battle of the River Plate"

Greetings bRuNuShky™
 
Old 05-26-2005, 09:51 PM   #10
michaeljr
FX Hack
Michael JR.
Digital Artist
mJRworld.com
Chicago Subs, USA
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 269
thanks, ya, the ticket with Reactor is to start small and use the lowest poly objects that get the job done, then build up and up, but remember to TURN OFF simulations that are already done, if you don't, it will recalculate all your Reactors.. thus probably messing everything up.

I've been messing with built in dynamics since they first came out in MAX. but back then, before Reactor, it was a major strugle. it was hard just to get a box, to stay on top of another box, no matter how hard you tried, most of the time it would eventually work it's way through each other and keep on falling!!!

I just wish I knew math and scripting, then could just write some custom extensions to use with Reactor.
__________________
michael JR.
mJRworld.com

FXWars!CarCrash! Entry #8
 
Old 05-27-2005, 07:22 PM   #11
michaeljr
FX Hack
Michael JR.
Digital Artist
mJRworld.com
Chicago Subs, USA
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 269
for kicks and giggles I was getting bored with the TOY CAR and Wheel constraint in Reactor so I attempted, crapoly, to build a simple suspension.

http://www.mjrworld.com/fxwars/fxwars.html


it doesn't handle torque very well, goes all sorts of crazy when power is applied, so I need to stick my head under my car today and get a little better idea how things are setup, probably need some more mass to the parts and tie rods might help. right now the ground is moving up and down, so it's not supporting the weight of the car, but I"m going to try to figure out if it's possible to copy and dublicate these setups, cause it's a pain to setup over and over and over.

but it's time to mow the rest of the yard.
__________________
michael JR.
mJRworld.com

FXWars!CarCrash! Entry #8
 
Old 05-28-2005, 10:13 PM   #12
artman50
Frequenter
juan carlos lopez
puebla , Mexico
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 112
i have send you a PM .
__________________


Last edited by artman50 : 05-28-2005 at 10:50 PM.
 
Old 06-15-2005, 04:21 AM   #13
michaeljr
FX Hack
Michael JR.
Digital Artist
mJRworld.com
Chicago Subs, USA
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 269
ok well I got a little PM today from bRuNuShky wondering if I was sick or just dead cause I haven't made any updates, thanks for caring, but no I am still here. have been very busy in the real world. I teach a church related Boy Scout type group and we had a regional camp out with some 500 kids and that sucked up a whole weekend plus all the prep time. then since the weather turned nice I have been re landscaping the yard a lot. tons of bricks (and I mean a ton of bricks) and loads of dirt and mulch with some sweet flowers. here is a pic of the lights I just put in last night, those freaking blood sucking insects turned my back into a pin cushion.

but here and there I have been working on some stuff and watching closely everyone else progress. I'm really impressed with some of the models, sets, and renderings of near photo real stuff. so I have decided, since I just don't have time to model and light a "real" scene, that I'm sticking to doing more physics in my wreck and not worring about the other stuff. I'm hoping to have a near 90% physics based wreck.

since it's so close to the end and I may or may not get done, I figured I can leak a bit more about what I am trying to do since I don't think, not that I have noticed yet, anyone else attempting some of this stuff. I have been doing some research on what is involved in a car wreck and how the car deforms to protect the occupents. So I have done some test with crumple zones controlling the deformation of the cars surface. also weight transfers such of that of the engine and transmission and how it, depending on the weight ratio, controls the spin and flipping of the car. I also have been testing a more realistic suspension system that actually behaves like a real car, not the Toy Car setup of REACTOR in 3dsMAX. this suspension will drop when the car moves to far away from the ground and also will PUSH back after the intial impact of the car. also steering plays a big part in impact control. after viewing some crash footage from under a car I saw how the steering system crumples and the tires actually take a lot of the energy out of the crash.

so I found a pre made VW Golf that I have been cleaning up and modifing to use. I picked that car cause it was already modeled, but also I can easliy find photos and info about it's size, weight, and performance. also this model matches the piece of crash footage I am attempting to duplicate, hopefully 90% of which will all be physics based, no keyframe animation, no speed up or downs in post, etc. the car in the crash footage was about the same size of the VW Golf. this will allow me to reverse engineer the crash to get the exact speed of the car and then the weight of the car, since I do not know how much the doors, or frame, etc. etc. weight in the car. I can only guess with what car knowledge I have, on how much it weights, then calcualte and change until I can get close to what the wreck looks like. then if time permits, I will alter the wreck in some way, placing say an extra object in it's way, or speed up the car, so that the wreck looks different enough from the crash footage so that no one can think I just keyframed over the video footage.

so next will be building and rigging the frame, engine, transmission, suspension, exhaust, doors, truck, skin control, bumpers and anything else that is directly and directly effects the inital crash and energy transfers. then things like glass, plastic parts, dust and debris, which does not effect the wreck will come next.

so that's where I am at.
__________________
michael JR.
mJRworld.com

FXWars!CarCrash! Entry #8
 
Old 06-15-2005, 06:45 PM   #14
anirudha
WORKHORSE
portfolio
Anirudha %2BMude
Mumbai, India
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 78
hey mJR,
gotta say ur tests are looking the closest in this challenge.
there must going a lot of thinking in that mind.
looking forward for the car crash results with ur custom suspensions
and metal responses.
good luck.........
__________________
Let There Be Light!!!!!!!!!
 
Old 06-27-2005, 07:34 PM   #15
michaeljr
FX Hack
Michael JR.
Digital Artist
mJRworld.com
Chicago Subs, USA
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 269
weeeee ha, finally some time to sit down and work. no more church picnics, no more brick work in the yard, no more planting flowers in the 95 degree 90% humitity weather.

first, a round of applause for the deadline, I mean turning of the head extension... (clap, clap, clap) couldn't have come at a better time.

right now I"m still in the process of building a car frame and the main impact controllers. here is the car model I have chosen to use. it's a pre built model I had with a lot of work done to it. probably could have modeled one from scratch with the amount of work I have done taking it from 10,000s of polys and 300 objects down to a managable 15,000 polys and 100 objects.

it has been broken into color coded zones. each zone is a part of the car that is a seperate unit. each zone will have it's own dynamic simulation based off a whole car simulation (if my computer doesn't hose itself). each zone will also have it's own weight, per my best guess of what those parts weight, and will be connected to the zones next to them for weight transfer and deformation. like say if the wheel breaks at the axis and pushs into the wheel well it should deform the fender. or if the bumper rips and pushes into the engine which then pushes into the passenger area.

we shall see, more images to follow hopefull tonight, but I"m exhaust from playing 4 Square and Kickball....
Attached Images
File Type: jpg mJRcolorcoded.jpg (50.8 KB, 106 views)
__________________
michael JR.
mJRworld.com

FXWars!CarCrash! Entry #8
 
Thread Closed share thread


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
CGSociety
Society of Digital Artists
www.cgsociety.org

Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2006,
Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Minimize Ads
Forum Jump
Miscellaneous

All times are GMT. The time now is 10:03 PM.


Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.