Realistic beasts

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Old 05 May 2005   #1
Realistic beasts

I am drawing a dragon at the moment which is something I havn't done for a long time. My sense of anatomy has improved now which makes it difficult to continue. I can understand how a dragon could work if it had no fore-limbs, but I just can't get my head around the anatomy of an area with both wings and arms. It just wouldn't work.

Do you ever get fustrated by this?

Maybe it is because I am reading "what does a martian look like" which is about scientific specuations about alien life.

To me it seems important that my imagery is really believable. I think I am going to have to loose those arms...
 
Old 05 May 2005   #2
Hi i think you will do what you are doing now. I want ask you somethink. Can you give me a link of that book which are you reading now? Thanks a lot! Good luck and inspiration for you
 
Old 05 May 2005   #3
Sure, there is a link to amazon here . But you are best off looking for the amazon of your country. There is a reference to a book by Schmidt...who ever he is which might be good to. I am finding the book generally quite good but a little rambling.
 
Old 05 May 2005   #4
a *dragon* is a mythical creature,although *komodo dragons* do exist,so i think ur free to make up most of it,the only significant thing that always stands out is the head.

do a google search for chinese dragons or sumthin,they are the best type.
 
Old 05 May 2005   #5
Hi Noob,

The fact that is is mythical doesn't mean that I don't want it to be possible. Things mean so much more if they are possible.

Imagine a story where the good guy wins because he can just walk through an army of men shooting at him. It makes the story less good in my view. If it is believable then everything means more. I feel I can learn more from it.

Yeah, Chinese dragons are much better. They actually do exist in a kind of a way because people dress up as them and run about the place. I can't imagine anyone dressing in a flying dragon costume and flying around.
 
Old 05 May 2005   #6
lol i don't mean cos it mythical u shudn't draw it,i mean it is mythical so feel free to make it up urself,draw ur own idea of a dragon.theres no right way to draw a dragon.
 
Old 05 May 2005   #7
I've always thought that the best solution to that six-limb problem is just to stick to four. (But am I correct in assuming that you've solved the four-limbed dragon and now you want to go with the six-limbed one?)

Think about those pre-historic (probably more than just pre-historic) birds that climbed around with a claw in the second joint of the wing: that's what I'd go for in dragon anatomy.
 
Old 05 May 2005   #8
Well, it has to fly and it has to pick things up... and I kind of want it to look like your bog standard dragon. I already layed out the composition and everyghing but now I am looking at it and thinking "this can't work". I think I will stick with it anyway as it is only a jokey peice but I was just wondering if other people had this kind of thought.

I guess it is a matter of drawing the line. You can't take physics too seriously because then you loose out on expression, but there has to be enough believability in there. I guess we all have our own thresholds.
 
Old 05 May 2005   #9
Hi Kargokultti,

Is this a common problem then? The "six-limb problem" as you call it? I can see how a lot of people would come up against it.

Actually, I have this weeks new scientist and it has a picture of a beautifull fossil of a feathered dinosoar. I think I will use him as a model for my next dragon and leave this one looking improbable.
 
Old 05 May 2005   #10
hmm have u tried a google search?
 
Old 05 May 2005   #11
What if it picked stuff up with the hind legs? Like maidens? Hm. The poor lass would most certainly get the worst of it when the creature landed.

Yup, there's certainly many things pointing towards six limbs.
 
Old 05 May 2005   #12
I'm working on this very issue right now for a winged humanoid.

Something to consider is that insects have found no difficulty fitting in more than four limbs. This suggests a couple of possible solutions:

-Segmentation: I'm not suggesting segmentation exactly like an insect, but maybe add a third support structure akin to the hips/shoulders for the wings with appropriate underlying musculature.

-Partial exoskeleton for added support.

You could also go with reduced forelimbs that require less bulky musculature, like a T. rex, though this would limit it's carrying capacity.
 
Old 05 May 2005   #13
I like the t-rex solution.

Certainly insects are far less limited, partly because of their segmentation but also because they are so much smaller. Physics works different for them and they don't need nearly as much muscle to get about.

Infact, there is a certain size below which insects don't have to worry about gravity and they can stick onto ceilings using the electro-static force. Most insects are below this threshold size.

However, insects can't get larger than the size of the largest stag beetles as they don't have a very efficient respirotary system. This was different millions of years ago though as there was much more oxygen in the air.
 
Old 05 May 2005   #14
This is a fun brainstormer!

OK, uhm...I'd go for double shoulder blades or a fixed one...make the neck somewhat shorter with a blunt head shape, maybe bulldoggish, the ribcage could come a little back relatively to allow fur muscles strapping over from fused bones belowand in front of the ribcage towards the muscles in the back. It's doable I say.
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Old 05 May 2005   #15
Well the only problem actually is gravity. The way traditional dragons are represented at the sheer size they would collapse in on themselves. Check out the size of an elephant's leg bones. Could you imagine the power needed to get an elephant off the ground? Dragons must have used magic as turbo chargers to take off.

I reckon you are worrying too much John. Its really good to be conserned bout accuracy but since dragons mainly exist in our flights of fancy let him go all the way. The thing I have noticed about most 'good looking' mosters is a general adherance to conventional anatomy with the hell tweaked out of the details.

Post it as a wip it would make a great title and I think you would generate lots of fascinating participation,... 'does this dragon exist'?

Good luck man and have fun
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