Why is LW so whacked?

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Old 01 January 2005   #1
Unhappy Why is LW so whacked?

I just watched a video from 3dbuzz on 3ds max, using version 4. (My job is getting 3dsMax for training students.)
In the old version 4 they had a dopesheet, multiple range settings for rendering, lots of options for soft-selection, nearly everything is animatable and seems to work together - and this is in version FOUR. (Including a rendering tool that's reminiscent of FPrime.)
They are now in version Seven.

Here, LW is in version EIGHT and is just hacking in many of these things.

It's not until XSI Foundation appeared that I began really looking at other packages and I now see that LW is really really behind the curve.
C4D? Don't get me started with their native ability to export to AE.

I know that in most cases those programs are much more expensive than LW, and I hate to sound so negative, but will LW ever actually catch up?

Last edited by Cman : 01 January 2005 at 08:05 PM.
 
Old 01 January 2005   #2
I think all apps go through this - eventually LW will bounce back and you'll wonder why you even bothered with XSI.
 
Old 01 January 2005   #3
LW had bone deformation, IK, HDRI support, GI/radiosity, raytracing, standard long before Max (or most other apps) shipped with these features. Lightwave and Newtek have a long history of being inovative and staying competative. In my opinion (I use Lw on a daily bases for work) Lightwave is a very strong 3D app and many things going for it. I push it as hard as I can go and it's never failed me.
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Old 01 January 2005   #4
I wish I had optimism like that.
 
Old 01 January 2005   #5
I started writing a reply but i said why bother. Its easy to tell when ppl are lookn for ways to ease the pain of thier own short comings. hehe have a good day.
 
Old 01 January 2005   #6
Originally Posted by vonbon: I started writing a reply but i said why bother. Its easy to tell when ppl are lookn for ways to ease the pain of thier own short comings. hehe have a good day.


All software packages have problems. I don't think that Cman is blaming any shortcomings of his own on LightWave...
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Old 01 January 2005   #7
Originally Posted by uncon: LW had bone deformation, IK, HDRI support, GI/radiosity, raytracing, standard long before Max (or most other apps) shipped with these features. Lightwave and Newtek have a long history of being inovative and staying competative. In my opinion (I use Lw on a daily bases for work) Lightwave is a very strong 3D app and many things going for it. I push it as hard as I can go and it's never failed me.


Hmm...
But these are all kinda "big ticket" things, when the nuts and bolts get's looked over.
Like something many have asked for years, to be able to make a spline, extrude on that spline, then change the spline and have the extrusion update - where is that?

Where are edges? Just selecting edges even, let alone weighting them.


I was one of the first to add bridging through lscript because I saw it in other packages.
But why wasn't it in LW to begin with? It's not until v8 that it's added, and it's really just a previously free plugin that's now simply shipped with LW.

But as vonbon says, maybe I'm just whining and crying about what LW doesn't have instead of just using the other apps and being happy about what they DO have.

I guess I shouldn't be upset I've sent Newtek thousands of dollars over the years to get updates that are not much more than a repackaging of previously free or commercial plugins. (see v8)

vonbon is quite right - I'll just put my money where my mouth is and leave it at that.
I don't plan to comment on this thread again.
Sorry to have bothered.

Have a nice day.

Last edited by Cman : 01 January 2005 at 09:19 PM.
 
Old 01 January 2005   #8
So the "big ticket" items can be dismissed? I don't understand your frustration. What do you want out of Lightwave? what's the problem?
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Old 01 January 2005   #9
C4D has some great features I wish LW had. However, I can't stand it's interface.
On a positive note; I recieved an email response from the guys at Newtek telling me that they are working on the features that I (and probably every other user that sent them a "features" request) asked them for. REALLY IMPORTANT ONES (for modeling at least): Ngons, Edge support with extrusions, weighting etc; and last but not necessarily least, SubPixel Displacement. So I am heartened by their quick responce in acknowledgement and that they are working on it. I just hope it's much sooner than much later.
The soft selections you mentioned would be nice but, depending on what it is you are doing, you maybe able to use weight maps to achieve that. It's a runaround, I know.
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Last edited by Ramon : 01 January 2005 at 04:22 AM.
 
Old 01 January 2005   #10
Cman i hope you look back at this I didnt mean to come off as a !@#$%. tho i can be a smart @$$. Im just havn fun really, no mistake i did mean what i said but not to hurt ya. So now ima write what i was gone write.

In my opinion they make these programs based on what "we" as artist want. I cant speak for everybody but i know when "I" think the program should work a certain way and it doesnt its usually cause i want somthn to work faster, easier, more in depth, or just a way "I" think is better. Your opinion on how it should work counts also, like everybody else who does graphics. So if you a software developer, who do you listen to. At what level of complexity do you approach it. How much money is R&D gone cost . So why its probly impossible to please everybody, why "we" as artist (at least in this forum) fightn or bashn about it. If you see somthn thats cool in another program and you cant do it in lightwave, and they are important enough to where you think you should switch then by all means switch to get the job done. If the cost(time=money) out weigh the workaround then do what you have to do.

I just think instead of coming here with negativity maybe you could have came and presented what the other program has, ya know "hey check this out, wonder how it could be acheived in LW" "Help" us with a workaround. I mean, us users of LW know what we aint got(sometimes we just dont know the process) but still. Unless you being a critic of artwork, bring somthn positve to the forum, hehe but i know some feelings can get hurt when people critique artwork. Lets help each other, u might like the workaround we come up with better than the way ya program does it.

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Old 01 January 2005   #11
every 3d app his it's set of weaknesses...and that includes xsi, max, maya and c4d


cinema4d:note that cinema 4d has just got ngons...it took 9 releases to get 'em...
and cinema's renderer is really not there as yet..

3dsmax 7 still can't select/manipulate the projected sub d points...you can in the very latest version 7 "see" the porjection so it looks nicer but the points still float above...lightwave has had this for years...xsi has them now as well.


xsi's render tree is hard to grasp for most new users, it feels quite alien to what they have used before with max, lightwave etc...and they only just added render balls/boxes in version 4...before that there were no shader balls...
and whilst metal ray is nice...you don't have much of a choice for renderers in comparion to 3ds max which has scanline,mental ray,vray,brazil,illustrate,final render.....etc.

maya continues to be a mish mash of render capability with some fx that will only work in a particular renderer and not others...


depends how you look at it i surpose...is your glass half empty or half full?

i use max, lightwave and xsi foundation...to be very honest they are all irritating i just think that lightwave tends to irritate me less than the others on most occasions...!
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Old 01 January 2005   #12
I use Maya all day at work. Sometimes I'm like wow! This is so much easier to do than in Lightwave, why can't Lightwave be like this? Then other times I'm like wow! this sucks! It's so much easier to do it in Lightwave, why can't Maya be like this? I've also used XSI and Max and thought very similar things.

The long and short of it is all 3d apps suck in different ways.



oh, and I'll be watching this thread. Play nice.
 
Old 01 January 2005   #13
I will say this: Modo is kicking a and taking names. Its just silly at what they consider a patch and they even list a release date on the feature update. Some toosl LW already has but its just how fast they were able to be get them out integrated in the app, being that they are a "new" kid on the block and all. I am waiting for LW 8.2 but compared to what others are doing it just kills me to see that are literally "dragging" behind. The IK and deformation speed upgrades I have been crying about since 6.5 would make all those character tools that 3rd party release even better and even the new ones in [8]. But no matter what tools they give you, they get shortchanged by the slowness of deformation, slow expressions and IK slow speed. I am still thinking the new team are trying to get the heads around LW and it shows in the speed of how each patch is released. For the record, while the new features like ghost for IK is cute, the bigger problems need to be addressed or prioritize:

(A really old list)

Ik Speed
Deformation speed
Expression speed
AE export
Full PSD export
If you gonna use IK boost, make it worthwhile and allow it have simple locked down (for feet).



Surpass has stopped me from asking for multipass manager but it tools like that that should have been there in some form or manner. The UV features is a great step in the right direction but would love to use it soon.
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Old 01 January 2005   #14
ive seen complaints about the PSD Exporter alot. Ive used it before and it seemed to work fine for me. it split diffrent things up like spec, reflc, difuse, etc. in diffrent layers when i opened it in photoshop. just curious, how is it suppossed to work.
 
Old 01 January 2005   #15
Groundhog day?

Must be that time of year when all the "LW doesn't have edges, blah, etc, blah," regulars/whiners come out to rant and rave.

Groundhog day redux...
 
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