MAXON Cinema 4D R8

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  07 July 2002
MAXON Cinema 4D R8

meloncully says to check this out (and it's cool):

http://www.3dfortherealworld.com/

L.
 
  07 July 2002
<----jaw hits floor
 
  07 July 2002
Hmmm....
You know, after having read through all of that, I can honestly say that I believe the only thing C4D has going for it is the price.

The features that R8 have are nothing new or unique - they are merely trying to catch up to the level of the more industry-used software.

I really do think that the guys at Maxon should try and be more innovative in their designs for new incarnations of the software

I personally have never used the program (and most likely never will, because I am happy with the software I am currently using), so I can't claim to know all the ins and outs of C4D, but the impression I've always got from it is that it is a kind of "poor man's Max". Forgive me if I am wrong, C4D just seems to be missing that cutting edge spark...

I've also yet to see anything truly photorealistic come out of it - and people, please feel free to prove otherwise - so I don't feel inclined to believe some of their claims about how incredible this new version is.

However, I appreciate the fact that there is, of course, a large market for this application - as I mentioned before, it is considerably less wallet-crippling than some of the other software out there.
But, as cheap as it is, what I find hard to swallow is why anyone would pay for this software, when surely it can't easily be utilised to make money? Is C4D actually used by anyone here as a workhorse?

I guess what I'm trying to say is that C4D should be trying to not only catch up to other applications, it should be trying to offer something new that other software doesn't offer.
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leighvanderbyl.com
 
  07 July 2002
i was kinda thinking the same thing, but not as detailed as you.

when i read the specs, i was jut thinking to myself that most of the features that are new to c4d have been around in lw and maya, and houdini well, i think the node based part from houdini.

so i think c4d should come out with some more impressive features and maybe more people would be inclined to use it.
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meloncully
 
  07 July 2002
Yeah, it's like every program has it's strengths, that it's well known for - I won't go through them all, but everyone knows what I'm talking about. Some programs are just really good at one thing in particular, which is why it's an essential part of an animators arsenal, so to speak.

The impression that I get from C4D, and I get this not only from reading reviews, features such as this and seeing renders, is that it's fairly mediocre in the grand scheme of things.

If you compare it to programs like Maya, Max, Lightwave and XSI (and I know it's not really fair to compare it to these, as I think it's in a slightly different league) - it's really nothing special.
And this is something that Maxon should be striving to change. I think they need to focus on something, maybe cash in on a new trend (such as NLA) and ensure that C4D has an extraordinary ability with it - thus making it more essential to animators, and making it a more useful program, possibly even to become a competitor in terms of the more advanced industry
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leighvanderbyl.com
 
  07 July 2002
And this is where I beg to differ slightly.

I used C4D with XL6 and XL7 when I had the pleasure of reviewing them. At the time (i.e. before this year's price slashing insanity), the nearest competing application (Lightwave) was substantially more expensive. C4D not only had the capabilities to do great professional photorealistic animation work (check out Pump Action, by Phil McNally -- which was done with C4D XL5), but it was affordable. I found that for "bread and butter" work like flying logos, product visualization, etc. it was really easy to use and rendered beautifully. Granted, the character animation capabilities had never been strong until R8's MOCCA, but most work out there involves VFX and non-character animation shots.

Another deciding factor is that MAXON is a German company and has a very strong presence in Europe. This is unlike all the other companies that only have regional sales offices which from hearsay, support hasn't been great as the emphasis is on selling products rather than after-market support. For studios in Europe that needed a robust solution, the natural choice was C4D as the support infrastructure is there.

My 2 cents.

Leo
 
  07 July 2002
Ok, I understand your point about European studios using it, that makes perfect sense

But I've just watched "Pump Action" now (it's the first actual animation done in C4D I've ever seen), and while it is a very good piece, I'm doubt I would call it photorealistic. Admittedly, I did view it on the smallest, lowest quality window, so my judgement of that is most likely impaired.

But in terms of what you were saying with regards to "bread and butter" work - that brings me to my original point - the only thing it has going for it is it's cheap price.

Ease of use and beautiful renders are available in a number of other packages, the only difference being the price.

Which is why I think that Maxon should endeavour to pack some more really hot features into C4D - I'm sure they would like C4D to be a competitor on a higher level than it currently is, and I think the only way to achieve that is to ensure that C4D develops a particular strength, so that when people think, for instance, of (let's say they brought out a really really good NLA system) NLA, then they will immediately think of C4D, in much the same way as people think of Maya or XSI when they think of awesome character animation.

I know that, at the end of the day, it really does come down more to the artist behind the machine and not the software (just look at Rustboy), but having applications at your fingertips that allow you to create things more efficiently and hassle-free certainly is helpful, and that is why I think that C4D could benefit more from trying to be more innovative and less "catching up to the others".

I could be wrong here, but I seem to remember that C4D used to be rather respected for some of it's lighting capabilities - for instance, it was one of the first 3D applications to fully support caustics (although I could be wrong here), but reading through the feature list here, I see nothing exciting that makes me go "wow, no-one else has that! I should really check that out!", which is something that I do feel when I read through the features lists of other software, which is the reason that I sent away for the XSI Experience disc and got the Maya Learning Edition, but will not be at all inclined to get hold of a demo for this
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leighvanderbyl.com
 
  07 July 2002
One thing that Cinema has always had going for it was stability.

It's always been "the poor man's" solution to a lot.

The plugin support for it is getting much better:

Nextlimit
Messiah:Animate

It's newer features, which are probably old hat to LW, Max and Maya users are welcome news for those of us using it.

I think that the "Playing Catch Up" is probably over with this release. Mocca looks to be a solid character animation tool (though I'm opting for Messiah).

Forgive me if I sound giddy, but it'll be nice to have what they're putting out

Last edited by Grey : 07 July 2002 at 05:22 PM.
 
  07 July 2002
I have used LW and Maya for film and TV projects. I don't know why, but when I looked at C4D R8 I liked it. I don't know of anyone using it, but there is something about that makes me like it
Will I ever use it?? Only if my employer tells me to use it.
Leigh - not sure if you have seen this image made in C4D, but I think it looks pretty good.
http://www.raph.com/3dartists/artga...rles_piles1.jpg

roger
 
  07 July 2002
BTW: so far as PhotoReal Renders...

this looks pretty photoreal to me

http://www.pixelworks.at/dogfight/240.mov
 
  07 July 2002
Roger - that pic is pretty cool, but it's only really the lighting that really gives it some *ZING!!!*, and as I said before, it's the lighting abilities that seem best about C4D.
However, the rest of this pic is fairly inconsequential to the program itself - the model is pretty standard, the background is a flat picture, and the bricks are a (noticeably) tiled photograph.
It's a nice picture, but not an extraordinary one.

Grey - I have a bloody slow connection, so I'm still waiting for the dogfight to load...
But photorealistic capabilities are to be expected of any 3D software these days, and besides - achieving photorealistic results is more to do with the artists correct use of the software. It's more innovative intiatives that I'm suggesting here
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leighvanderbyl.com
 
  07 July 2002
Question

I am also not sure what all the "fuss" about NLA. Now I am NOT a animator, I am a Character Modeler but when I worked at Digital Domain I asked some of their Character Animators about NLA and they all seemed to think it was more of a "gimick".
I guess it might have it's uses in games, but for film work it does not seem as useful.

Has anyone here used it for film work??

roger
 
  07 July 2002
Hey leigh - would you call this photorealistic ????

This is my current Project in Cinema4D........

Will be a 10min movie some day ;)

I dont know what your problem with cinema 4d is - but - if alias´ products were that good - apple would have bought them month ago ;)


heres the pictures.......

http://www.cedrik.com/test/vent/01.jpg
http://www.cedrik.com/test/vent/02.jpg
http://www.cedrik.com/test/vent/03.jpg


cheers,

cEdRik!
 
  07 July 2002
If it's for your personnal use only the price isn't such a good argument anymore with Maya and Lightwave dropping down their prices and being much more powerful. (but after all it's all a matter of choices).

For the europe argument, i can only speak for France but here it's 3dsmax that rules (in volume). Why ? Because it's the only 3D software that is translated into many langages. Cinema 4d does this too and i respect that, but who wants to spend thousands of hours learning and trying to master a software if you can't find a job with it. That's a problem too.

I'll still try the demo when it's out because the interface seems well thought and because i'm curious.

Still i don't understand why 3d companies don't bring the "killer app" that users are asking for, i feel they don't listen enough to users.... just an example : a lot of modellers only swear by meshtools or mirai tools for polygon modelling, it doesn't seem to be that hard to develop now (even freewares try..), but still this kind of modelling isn't included in new softwares...
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  07 July 2002
@leigh:

maybe you should just try the demo version of c4d xL7 and see what it's capable of. please don't talk in that way of tools you don't really know!

i'm sorry, the text the making-of is in german but maybe you are interested in it:
http://www.c4d-treff.de/interview/c...f/daylight.html

some pictures made with c4d:
http://www.cinema4d.com/pages/produ...rtschaft_hi.jpg made with c4d-go. anything in the pic is geometry.
http://www.c4d-treff.de/galerie/gro...d=1189&rubrik=1
http://www.c4d-treff.de/galerie/gro...d=2186&rubrik=3
http://www.c4d-treff.de/galerie/gro...d=1209&rubrik=1
http://www.c4d-treff.de/galerie/gro...d=1409&rubrik=1
http://www.c4d-treff.de/galerie/gro...d=2097&rubrik=2
http://www.c4d-treff.de/galerie/gro...d=1363&rubrik=3
http://www.c4d-treff.de/galerie/gro...d=1940&rubrik=3
http://www.c4d-treff.de/galerie/gro...d=2361&rubrik=3
http://www.c4d-treff.de/galerie/gro...d=1468&rubrik=5
1.5 million faces: http://www.c4d-treff.de/galerie/gro...d=1647&rubrik=9
http://www.c4d-treff.de/galerie/gro...d=108&rubrik=10
http://www.c4d-treff.de/galerie/gro...=1378&rubrik=11
http://www.c4d-treff.de/galerie/gro...=2147&rubrik=11
http://www.c4d-treff.de/galerie/gro...id=907&rubrik=1

these are examples of c4d-work. i like it a lot and i think it is a great tool for low money. good renderer, nice modelling tools an extremely stable!

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Last edited by sad : 07 July 2002 at 07:30 PM.
 
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