amd64 with systemax vs hp for a new pc user

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Old 05 May 2004   #1
amd64 with systemax vs hp for a new pc user

Mac user buying first pc primarily for Maya ulimmited. I'm a compositor using Maya mostly for creating 3d backgrounds and using fx with fluids and Dynamics. I use my home computers for demo reel stuff and learning so I probably don't need something as hardcore as some of you guys out there. After reading over the forum and taking my budget into consideration (which has expanded considerably) here is what I am looking at:
From TigerDirect.com:
Systemax AMD64, 3200 operating at ? ghz (site doesn't say)
XP home
1G ddr333 pc2700 non-ecc ram
200gb ultra ata 7200rpm HD with 8mb cache
-8xdvd-/+ R/RW Drive
7 in 1 usb 2 card reader
GeForce FX5200 128 MB
17in crt monitor
$1204 + shipping is about $95 = $1300 usd aprox

From HP.com
HP Amd64, 3200 operating at 2.0 Ghz
XP home
1 GB ddr/pc2700
250 GB -7200 rpm HD
8xdvd+rw?=r drive
1 usb 2.0/firewire/9 in 1 card reader win dvd
geforece fx5200xt 128 mb
17in monitor
$1204 including shipping

The main $$ difference is that HP has a special upgrading the HD to 250g and free shipping. Eventually I will want to upgrade the video card, probably to a geforece4ti or an fx5900xt unless anyone knows of a good quadro that isn't very $$$. (opinions welcome on my VCd choices)
Thx in advance for any help.
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"Change your thoughts, change your destiny"
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Old 05 May 2004   #2
with that for information Id say none of the above
I cant seem to locate any info about what is actually inside the Systemax (mobo chipset ect)

Id recommend Boxx for a turnkey solution
or a built to fit at Monarch

but then again I always build my own, which if your on a budget
is by far the best bang for the buck, however there is a learning curve inviolved


if you like you can try a few component lists and we will critique them for compatibility and performance
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Last edited by Ice Czar : 05 May 2004 at 06:41 PM.
 
Old 05 May 2004   #3
boxx is great but much more expensive... it's just not in my budget
__________________
"Change your thoughts, change your destiny"
Shakti Gawain
 
Old 05 May 2004   #4
building a computer is
75% compatibility and performance research
2% inserting tab A into Slot B
23% Optimizing the OS and aps


runup a list > http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.ph...ch&pagenumber=1
__________________
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Vista delenda est. (Vista must be destroyed)

Last edited by Ice Czar : 05 May 2004 at 06:48 PM.
 
Old 05 May 2004   #5
thanks. maybe I'll give it a try. I'm not worried about the physical part of putting it together... I've upgraded my Mac plenty of times...just choosing the right components. I'll do some research and bring it to the forum. thx for the advice.
__________________
"Change your thoughts, change your destiny"
Shakti Gawain
 
Old 05 May 2004   #6
as long as youve got a wrist strap for ESD and take a few precautions, the actual building is easy

I'll help you with the research (as will the other members)

for starters got any components currently?
fans, old ATX case, optical drives, HDDs, FDD, NIC, ect?
got any friends that do? any computer shops nearby you can buddy up to for "junk" components, a recycle center?
can save a bit right up front


I spent a few months collecting antiques
a few old cases, tons of screws & fans, old CDROM drives, FloppyDiskDrives, NetworkInterfaceCards (PCI) all come in handy
(but dont trust the power supplies, and most other components are useless or will now be integrated on the mobo)

every dime you save there you can apply to where it counts

Even got a 18" Gateway CRT Monitor for free
that Im still using on one of the computers, and its not all that bad
holds up pretty well against my Eizo & ViewSonic 21"ers
__________________
ceterum censeo (in my opinion)
Vista delenda est. (Vista must be destroyed)

Last edited by Ice Czar : 05 May 2004 at 07:15 PM.
 
Old 05 May 2004   #7
A suggestion here......

As Ice pointed out, Monarch will build it for you, and their build price is cheap.

Monarch parts are very competitively priced.

Suggested parts for optimum speed would be as follows:

Gigabyte K8NSPRO, nVidia nForce3 250gb. SATA controller is built into the southbridge chip, as is the gb ethernet and hardware firewall. And USB 2.0.

Integrated as they are, they ae not a drain on the PCI bus as separate on board controller chips would be.

Raid scores on the 250gb are pretty damn good.

A64 3200

Corsair TwinX 1024 (2 x 512) Yes, it doesn't do dual channel, but you'll want 1gb or ram. I consider that a minimum build. Plus you get a nice lifetime warranty. And I would get PC3200. Why cripple your system with PC2700 when the system is built for faster?

SATA drives are not much more expensive than ATA drives. If you are going to do it, at least do it right. Also, there are a couple of 10k rpm SATA drives out there.
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Old 05 May 2004   #8
thx alot madmax... that is super helpful for getting started.

Is this how it works? Monarch builds the barebones and then I add stuff like
the video cards, operating system, ect? Please excuse my ignorance but it's my first time.

Iceczar, no I don't have any pc stuff... I've always used macs (which I'll still keep cause I use shake) but I think just building a system I'll save lots of $$ and be able to get a better computer... and a better video card, a definite plus.
I'm off to research.....thx guys
__________________
"Change your thoughts, change your destiny"
Shakti Gawain
 
Old 05 May 2004   #9
Quote:
Originally posted by angelimariposa
thx alot madmax... that is super helpful for getting started.

Is this how it works? Monarch builds the barebones and then I add stuff like
the video cards, operating system, ect? Please excuse my ignorance but it's my first time.



Yeah, pretty much. You go through and pick all the parts you want, and they will do the complete build for you. Pretty convenient if you are not comfortable doing it yourself, although there isn't much effort involved in building a system really.

I think, not sure, they charge like 60.00 That was when I checked for someone like a year ago.
__________________
TYAN S2912WG2NR * Dual Opteron 2360 2.5ghz Quad Cores * Quadro FX4600 * 16gb RAM
 
Old 05 May 2004   #10
Hi guys,
After some research and reading some of your previous threads,
here's what I've come up with but I still need to add the HD, cd-dvd drive, modemn, monitor and kybrd-mouse, videocard and the os: xp home or pro? (another$450+) Is xp pro really necessary I'm not networking?

Well, I was wondering if there was anyway to shave off a little $$ from this barebones system? I know you guys reccomend the nforce3 250gb mobo but it's not listed at monarch as a choice.
Dumb Q but how do I know how many usbs and firewire ports I'm getting? remember I'm new to all this.

Thx for all the help.

800075 Pre-Tested and Setup AMD Athlon 64 Barebones System
$18.00 $18.00
Case: 100034 - PS 300W - Monarch 1150 USB 2.0 Tower Case _ $49.00
Power Supply: 100819 - PS 430W - Antec True430 Dual Fan PS _ $87.00
Motherboard: 110589 - Gigabyte GA-K8VNXP VIA K8T800 GBLAN/Audio _ $165.00
Processor: 120746 - AMD Athlon 64 3000+ 512K _ $211.00 $211.00
Heatsink Fan: 130956 - Thermaltake A1770 AMD Opteron Heasink w/F _ $29.00
Thermal Grease: 800018 - Shin-Etsu G675 Thermal Grease (Cools CPU _ $12.00
Memory: 140803 - DDR (400) 3200 - 1 GB (2 pcs 512) Corsair _ $268.00 $268.00
2nd Memory: none _ _ _
Warranty: 800036 - Motherboard-CPU Warranty - 3 Year w/30 Da _ $29.95 $29.95
Case Fan: 130116 - 80mm - Thermaltake 80mm Ball Bearing DC C _ $25.00 $25.00
Round Cables: None _ _ _
Subtotal for 800075 with your selected options: $893.95

circuit city has a 120GB western Dig hd 7200 rpm for $40 after rebates... sound good? I'd prefer something bigger but that sounds good for my budget if it's an ok model.

thx
__________________
"Change your thoughts, change your destiny"
Shakti Gawain
 
Old 05 May 2004   #11
you're going to need a 10k scsi drive to handle some multi-tasking with compositing or 3d applications....don't go crazy about having a million GB of storage if it's going to be slow as hell .....no IDE drive is good for a workstation....and if you don't want multi-tasking (which I consider to be basic) get at least a 10k SATA drive for good performance...remember ...a Hard Drive is the MOST important thing on a Workstation...no graphics card, ram or processor can assure you that the work you have just spent 3 weeks on doing is not going to go corrupt or bye bye in a year....and please don't get anything under a GF FX 5900 XT (which can be softmodded into a Quadro FX 3000 ) specially that crappy GF FX 5200....

just my 2 cents...

OH...and build it...buy stuff at www.Newegg.com or www.tigerdirect.com
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Last edited by leif3d : 05 May 2004 at 06:54 PM.
 
Old 05 May 2004   #12
Quote:
Originally posted by angelimariposa
Well, I was wondering if there was anyway to shave off a little $$ from this barebones system? I know you guys reccomend the nforce3 250gb mobo but it's not listed at monarch as a choice.
Dumb Q but how do I know how many usbs and firewire ports I'm getting? remember I'm new to all this.



Honestly I'd shave off that motherboard. It's a VIA chipset and personally I wouldn't recommend that to someone unless I really hated them.

Also, the board I recommended, which was also a Gigabyte, is like 30+ cheaper than the one you selected.

I'd suggest giving Moarch a call or drop them an e-mail.

I've already seen people on the hardware forums dropping their almost new K8t800 boards in favor of the new 250gb.

The raid performance on the 250 is as much as 20% HIGHER due to the chipset integration.


You could also shave 25.00 off for that case fan and buy a cheaper one and install it yourself.

A friend of mine has one we built last weekend, in an older tower case with virtually no fan vents on it except the one in front and 2 in back. No side or top fan.

Temps with AMD stock heatsink/fan run 34c under load. No case fans.

I've picked up decent fans pretty cheap either on eBay, or from places like heatsinkfactory.com
__________________
TYAN S2912WG2NR * Dual Opteron 2360 2.5ghz Quad Cores * Quadro FX4600 * 16gb RAM
 
Old 05 May 2004   #13
keeping in mind the value of someone else intergating and testing a barebone system....

seeing as angelimariposa has no means to cross part out components to test them Id stick with Monarch for this first build
otherwise I too buy most of my parts from newegg (except memory which is Crucial)

regarding the SCSI, yes that would be nice, but would blow the budget to hell, and there is more than one way to skin a cat

here is where we start to employ the 23% Optimizing the system

get 3 or 4 x of those $40 HDDs
and a Dual Channel HighPoint PCI to ATA Controller Card $24

Place a HDD on each Channel of the mobo and the card
then on the Primary Channel of the mobo (IDE0) Install the OS
and then employ multiple pagefiles on the other HDDs (use the first partition which can be quite small) this effectively RAIDs the virtual memory

Multiple Page Files @ StorageReview FAQ
read it carefully regarding concurrent access, youll be able to employ the remaining space (most of the rest of those HDDs) for storage, and backups ect, but you wouldnt want to be accessing them while your rendering

youll have three to four times the storage, for less than a single 10k SATA HDD, and better Pagefile access (make sure to turn off the Indexing on those HDDs)

review > Virtual Memory in Windows XP
and Partitioning Strategies @ Radified
specifically page 2 Advantages of Multi-Partition Drives
(Rad is a friend of mine also checkout the rest of the site)

but in truth, more RAM would be far better
RAM access is several orders higher than any disk access
but thats the future, first max your RAM then get SCSI
and when your done, take those 120GB HDDs and build a nice redundant storage array on a PATA RAID card

the rest looks good and will get you going, you might have to bite the bullet on the budget and upgrade to a better chipset in the future...the 250 would be nice though
as far as the Power Supply good choice well worth it, Id rather run a computer out of a cardboard box with a good PSU than use something that can fry it all

when it comes to the actual build youll want to test the piss out of those HDDs so you can RMA any that fail
Which Brand of Hard Drive is Most Reliable? @ SR FAQ & Proper Handling Guide @ Seagate

way too many 800lb gorillas out there

you definately want to get XP Pro however, but if you can find all the drivers you need, you could try to employ Windows XP 64bit Beta Eval for free (at least for awhile)

a last note, check the warranty on those drives, and see if it can be extended via the website for a fee, if it lasts one year it will probably last three, shipping damage would normally manifest itself within a few months of heavy use, then with proper care and environemt you can resonably expect it to last the warranty period (which was orginally 3 years on those drives, but was reduced)
__________________
ceterum censeo (in my opinion)
Vista delenda est. (Vista must be destroyed)

Last edited by Ice Czar : 05 May 2004 at 08:17 PM.
 
Old 01 January 2006   #14
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