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Old 10-25-2013, 05:01 PM   #1
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The Guardian: New Zealand at risk of losing billion-dollar Avatar sequels

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"New Zealand's film industry may face 'crippling losses' if James Cameron's Avatar sequels are filmed in a country with better tax incentives
"

http://www.theguardian.com/film/201...try-avatar-risk
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Old 10-25-2013, 05:23 PM   #2
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The New Zealand government can be less parasitical with their greed and simply decrease the blood sucking of their taxes or lose a productive host of productive people for the benefit of productive people in order to quench the thirst of their perennial brood. That simple.
 
Old 10-25-2013, 06:50 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eworc
The New Zealand government can be less parasitical with their greed and simply decrease the blood sucking of their taxes or lose a productive host of productive people for the benefit of productive people in order to quench the thirst of their perennial brood. That simple.


Actually people of New Zealand don't see government as parasitical entity, that is more specific to US, they get a lot from paying their taxes and they were economically perfectly fine even before Weta came to NZ. It is companies sometimes that are greedy and don't have any moral value ... they would rather move their production to some totalitarian countries to extract more profits.
 
Old 10-25-2013, 07:47 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InTerceptoV
Actually people of New Zealand don't see government as parasitical entity, that is more specific to US, they get a lot from paying their taxes and they were economically perfectly fine even before Weta came to NZ. It is companies sometimes that are greedy and don't have any moral value ... they would rather move their production to some totalitarian countries to extract more profits.


This. Not saying this is the case right now, but I wonder how often it happens that a studio will try to use exactly these lines as leverage to manipulate provincial/national governments into getting tax credits... I would not be surprised if it happens a few times...
 
Old 10-25-2013, 09:08 PM   #5
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Consumers use the threat of doing their business elsewhere all the time, why should it be different for a company in relation to the products, services or in this case confiscatory fees that they have to absorb.

"and they were economically perfectly fine even before Weta came to NZ."

Newport Beach is closer to New Zealand than where I live but there is a differing opinion.

http://www.press.auckland.ac.nz/uoa....jsp?cid=409269

Last edited by eworc : 10-25-2013 at 09:12 PM.
 
Old 10-25-2013, 09:57 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toonman2
This. Not saying this is the case right now, but I wonder how often it happens that a studio will try to use exactly these lines as leverage to manipulate provincial/national governments into getting tax credits... I would not be surprised if it happens a few times...


The govt was willing to change the law to keep The Hobbit in NZ, so perhaps they are now seen as a soft touch. As mentioned in the article, Cameron does have a strong association with NZ (he owns a lot of land here and lives/will live here part time), so we'll see what his input is and how much clout he has with the studio.
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Old 10-25-2013, 10:45 PM   #7
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"soft touch"? The NZ government and it's people would be foolish to say the least if they didn't go so far as making it tax free. I don't have a figure to give at this time but I imagine LOTR was even more than the Hobbit in respect to the economy. The Hobbit is purported to be worth 1.5 billon to the NZ economy and the government graciously allowed for a 25 million dollar tax credit/rebate, whatever, it's simply "I'm only taking this much from you versus this much", it's not like they are actually giving them 25 million. Even if it were the case, 25 million for 1.5 billion seems a good deal in any reasonable person's mind.
 
Old 10-25-2013, 11:07 PM   #8
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I have read varying articles that state that tax grant benefits may be over bloated in their estimations. As well, given the budgets on his films, the expected grant could end up being in the rage of 50 to 75 million. That's a lot of shells for a smaller country to cough up.
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Old 10-25-2013, 11:38 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eworc
The New Zealand government can be less parasitical with their greed and simply decrease the blood sucking of their taxes...


Quote:
Originally Posted by eworc
The NZ government and it's people would be foolish to say the least if they didn't go so far as making it tax free.


It's funny, you seem to rail against the NZ govt taking or keeping taxes (that I don't mind paying in exchange for the services I enjoy) but you seem quite happy to hand my tax dollars over to a foreign corporation for a paper benefit that I will likely see none of.

In toto
your numbers seem to be a bit off too - Hobbit tax rebate
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Old 10-26-2013, 12:28 AM   #10
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Hmmm, the articles choice of words, "lent", "subsidy" and "rebate" tend to muddle the waters of what actually is occurring, since they have different meanings. Even if the NZ taxpayer actually provided $100 million in procuring and retaining the film production, isn't it still a great investment in relation to an economic gain for NZ of 1.5 billion? The 1.5 billion figure I read was in relation to the NZ economy alone, not about external source's compensation.

http://www.nydailynews.com/entertai...rticle-1.191809

Last edited by eworc : 10-26-2013 at 12:53 AM. Reason: link added
 
Old 10-26-2013, 01:30 AM   #11
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You could with the hobbit argue that it significantly benefits tourism to the country. That's a very hard sell for avatar or nearly every other foreign production that films there.

If the NZ government wants to play movies, I'd rather they give it to some of they well regarded local filmmakers the country has already produced. The money given to foreign producers could easily fund several large productions a year.
 
Old 10-26-2013, 03:13 AM   #12
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lol

Every time you hear/read the word "cost" in these types of arguments, substitute the word "cost" with "profit".

Talking head number 1: We are looking for ways to cut costs for the production.
Talking head number 1: We are looking for ways to increase profits for the production.

Both statements are true and honest.....but...which one is more accurate ?

How many times and in how many ways has this substitution been placed on the table over the last couple decades ?

(not just the film industry)
 
Old 10-26-2013, 06:26 AM   #13
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The whole purpose of business is to maximize profit. Damn, do you people work at cost your whole life or do you live in the real world and attempt to make more money than you spend in order to, I don't know, enjoy the benefits of your labor, perhaps retire when you get old. You guys are little "not for profit" entities? I didn't think so. Stop acting like a company is anything more than a group of individuals looking out for their self interest by focusing their collective AND voluntary labor to an end result. A result that hopefully brings about profit to all or there is zero point in it. A lot of people in this world have some sort of love affair about handing their money over to governments...I'll never understand it.

Last edited by eworc : 10-26-2013 at 06:36 AM.
 
Old 10-26-2013, 08:29 PM   #14
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Ok, so the film industry here in NZ has been given things that other sectors do not get. Employment law alterations, tax credits, etc. I put the question out there - why just them?

What if the govt drops the tax rate (or gives a bigger rebate) again for movies, what happens next time there is a big production that is threatening to take things offshore? Surely you can only go so far with this type of approach.

Edit.
As for the talk about not paying taxes, who pays for public infrastructure in the US? Or do you not have any?
 
Old 10-27-2013, 12:24 AM   #15
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Quote:
Surely you can only go so far with this type of approach.


You go as far as it makes financial sense. Give a tax rebate of 10 million dollars to attain a gain of $100 million dollars. Whatever number you come up with...the point is if the NZ economy or any other country's economy gets a reasonable return on an investment, it would be stupid to get in the way. You telling me that if you "gave" me 10 million dollars and the net result is you got back 100 million in return, you wouldn't keep doing it? That is all of a sudden I asked for 25 million or 80 million, you would then cry wolf and not do that in order to still get the 100 million? I certainly hope the logic some people employ isn't the other way around because you wouldn't just be losing out on a great investment, you would be bankrupt.

Quote:

As for the talk about not paying taxes, who pays for
public infrastructure in the US? Or do you not have any?


Nobody said anything about not paying taxes. Within the scope of this topic, I was merely pointing out what I think is strange...in that here is a scenario where tax money is "lent" or "rebated" or whatever is occurring in relation to an industry...THAT gives the people of the country a very large net gain economically and there is resistance. However is seems the same people just love giving more and more of their hard earn money to the same government for so many "programs" that are a very large net loss. Seems backasswards to me.
 
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