Body topology

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Old 12 December 2004   #1096
Hey Everyone

I been reading this thread for what seems like an eternity now, and I must say that its given me some confidence back in myself as far as my working methods are concerned. I have been working on figures on and off for the last 2 years and have only recently posted stuff and got a site up.

Just a couple of things really that I have noted on my 'journey', I cant remember who mentioned some bits but anyhow, this one is for Steven, I have followed your working method of using SDs with a wrap deformers/blends etc, but never used level edits because of 'slowing down' issues and always wondered why you didn't just add detail on the base mesh? I found it far easier this way, but am glad to see that you have now chosen this route as well. Hence my confidence returning. My stuff is still not perfect in anyway yet but I think Im on the right track.

Grugi: Regarding reference for modelling , myself, I always have a mirror handy and just plenty of reference and if need be I'll just yank the wife or daughter around or get them to digitally photo me. But I think also you can learn alot from anatomy books in general, as I have found also you can tell when something doesn't look right at a first glance ie proportions. Despite us all looking different the same rules always apply (generally)

I have a WiP section on my website that shows some of the facial topology similar to that of the pics in Tom Musgroves links so please check it out too and give it some crit or whatever.
Just my pennies worth. Great thread too. http://www.outlaws3d.co.uk

_J
 
Old 12 December 2004   #1097
Question Smooth Skin

I was wondering...what are the benefits and/or drawbacks of:

a) skinning a low poly cage as wrap deformer for a sub-d surface

b) skinning a poly proxy

I was wondering this when i was looking over Steven's Blendshape Tutorial. He was showing how a wrap deformer on a sub-d surface and poly surface differed. So, i just wanna know anything else like what method gives the most control, or which looks better, works faster, etc. I'm using maya in case u needed to know.
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Old 12 December 2004   #1098
Hi Derek

I can honestly ay I use the 'wrap' way on a daily basis and have found no real problems with at all. I always keep a couple of spare shapes on the side in case of any problems that may arise, detach what ever part needs it, and becuase its smooth skinned the weight maps are saved out so they are re-fed back once I'm happy with the rest of it and do the SDK's according to what I'm after.

But...not all rigs are gonna work the same way or the right way for your character depending on what its going to be doing. A good example is the Matrix. Where Neo is fighting all the 'Agents' in the square and doing his thing with that pole. I know that a couple of different rigs where used for the whole sequence so its what you find work best for you in what ever situations

Hope this makes sense
_J
 
Old 12 December 2004   #1099
Tom, that's a great resource for artists who want to study topology. No real crits, except maybe you could change the direction of edges down the cheek, to easier incorporate the infraorbital fold (which is one of those things that everyone has, although it's very subtle with some). To comment the face, I think the red and blue loops are really important, but the brown and green ones don't really need to be perfect loops. They can be, but there's no pressing need imo.

Grugi, not sure what you mean by blueprints, since we're talking about the human body... if you found any, please let me know ok?
Of course they would be better, but since there aren't any, we have to use photos. Just try to make sure the photo has minimal distortion - use a long lens, center the eye-level around the solar plexus, and use as little of the frame as you can get away with (don't let head and feet reach all the way to the edge).

Jim I replied in your thread.
 
Old 12 December 2004   #1100
Mr. Stahlberg,

thank you for the feedback, I've redone the post over in the modeling thread and it has the pictures inlined for easier referencing.

The post is entitled 'A solid base topology' and can be found here http://cgtalk.com/showthread.php?t=196100

Regarding your suggestion on the infraorbital fold, unfortunately neither I nor the modelers are quite clear what change you are suggesting. I searched the web for Infraorbital fold (and infraorbital crease, and Morgan's Line, Dennie's sign, Dennie-Morgan fold, etc.) Alas I couldn't find an image that clearly suggested what I should be looking at.

Here is a close up of the face and cheek area, I've highlighted a face loop that travels over the cheek bone as a reference location. If you could sketch a few hints to help us understand your suggestion it would be greatly appreciated.

http://www.dedalo-3d.com/lab/infraorbital_fold.jpg

Tom M.
LetterRip
 
Old 12 December 2004   #1101
infra means below, this crease starts just below the inner eyecorner and runs down and out diagonally across the cheek, to the mandible (or may stop short in some). It seems you can find it in almost everyone, as long as the light and camera are at the right angles. You can probably do it with bump-maps though in most very subtle cases, so I suppose it's not always that crucial.

It's hard to see it, because
1. it's subtle, especially in young people
2. it usually disappears when smiling.
After 20 minutes of googling this is the best I could come up with (guy on the right):
http://davidvolk.tripod.com/S_dave%...aces%20copy.jpg
I'm at home and don't remember my ftp info, so I'll post some better example tomorrow.
Another, equally bad (it can just barely be seen):
http://www.odessaglobe.com/russian/faces/borya.jpg

Last edited by Stahlberg : 12 December 2004 at 05:03 PM.
 
Old 12 December 2004   #1102
Originally Posted by Stahlberg: infra means below, this crease starts just below the inner eyecorner and runs down and out diagonally across the cheek, to the mandible (or may stop short in some). It seems you can find it in almost everyone, as long as the light and camera are at the right angles. You can probably do it with bump-maps though in most very subtle cases, so I suppose it's not always that crucial.

It's hard to see it, because
1. it's subtle, especially in young people
2. it usually disappears when smiling.
After 20 minutes of googling this is the best I could come up with (guy on the right):
http://davidvolk.tripod.com/S_dave%...aces%20copy.jpg
I'm at home and don't remember my ftp info, so I'll post some better example tomorrow.
Another, equally bad (it can just barely be seen):
http://www.odessaglobe.com/russian/faces/borya.jpg
Thanks.
I think to understand...should be this:



I hope to post the modified head as soon possible, following the suggestions from Laa-Yosh too, (the other post
http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.ph...00&page=2&pp=15)

Originally Posted by Laa-Yosh: For example, on the mesh in this thread, I would certainly rework the cheek and jaw areas, because both the edgeflow and density are not fit to get some nice skin sliding there. And maybe also take a look at the whole eyebrow area...
Thanks Mr. Stahlberg, and excuse me for my english.

Last edited by Bmanuel : 12 December 2004 at 06:11 PM.
 
Old 12 December 2004   #1103
Okay,

I think this face shows it fairly well

http://www.ethereality.info/etherea...ogy-olddude.jpg

From

http://www.ethereality.info/etherea...gy_research.htm

Manuel,

yes that is my understanding as well. If you look at the above image it appears that there is indeed a continuation to the jaw line. (They aren't connected in the above though...)

LetterRip
 
Old 12 December 2004   #1104
This is the new version of head I've modeled this night; now the infraorbital fold should be available...



 
Old 12 December 2004   #1105
I've drawn over your image...

Look into the mirror and make faces: smile, open your mouth, make "O" sounds, wrinkle your nose. Watch the skin over your cheeks and how it moves, where it stretches, where it gets compressed into tiny wrinkles and large flows.
You can easily detect some lines of action, directions in which the skin moves. These are marked by the green arrows. The best topology to fit to this movement is quite regular, so that you can easily even out the stretching and the compression, and form wrinkles perpendicular to the movement. Basic edgeflow is marked by the red lines.

I've also marked how I'd do the same with the brow area, because skin travels a lot there as well. You may also consider adding some extra edges to form wrinkles over that area.

It's all about the end effect after all... You want skin that moves, you model for it. Same goes for other parts of the body, look at the ROTK extra DVD to see how the character wires for muscle simulation look like. Pretty regular grids with extra edges for wrinkles and 3/5 sided edges to add/remove detail loops. This is how it works... at least I think so
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Old 12 December 2004   #1106
Hi all....Here is another head. I just noticed the area around the lateral canthus is a little off, not much of a problem to fix though....


I like to draw an edge around the eyebrow area to define the area, its not necessary but, I have not had any real problems in doing so....

ctrl-z

Last edited by Ctrl-Z : 01 January 2005 at 10:04 PM.
 
Old 12 December 2004   #1107
Here are a couple screengrabs of clothing.





ctrl-z

Last edited by Ctrl-Z : 01 January 2005 at 10:05 PM.
 
Old 12 December 2004   #1108
Originally Posted by Laa-Yosh: I've drawn over your image...



Thanks.
I'm remodelling the head...
 
Old 12 December 2004   #1109
Sorry I didn't post any more images like I said, but your examples were good enough.

About La-Yosh's drawing: I agree. Look at the 'grain' on the cheek here, they show pretty good how one set of edges shold flow.

 
Old 12 December 2004   #1110
Hey Guys, I have been following this thread for a while, and got inspired enough to create my own character. I have been working on the head for a while and finally got around to making a body for it. Some of the topology is borrowed from Stahlberg's, some of it from other examples I have seen, and some of it I made up my own. Its not much to look at yet, but I wanted to post a picture to get other peoples opinions on the porportions. I modeled the body yesterday and I have been staring at the screen for too long. Its hard to see where the mistakes are. Keep in mind that there are no feet, the shoulders are blobby, and there are a host of other problems, which I will iron out once I get the porpotions correct. So if anyone could cirtique it for me, I would gladly appreciate it. Thanks.

 
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