R14 Sculpting/painting workflow?

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  09 September 2012
R14 Sculpting/painting workflow?

OK we should be getting our R14 licenses sent soon, but have been mucking about with the demo today to practice sculpting for an upcoming project.

I have a question about Sculpting/painting workflow.

I'm on a Mac Pro with 32 GB RAM and an ATI 5770 card.

I've sculpted on a primitive torus. (I put icing on a virtual donut).

Got the icing how I wanted it, then proceeded to bake the sculpt back to the level 0 mesh.
So far, so good.

I hid the original object with the sculpt tag from view.

With the newly created donut (the baked one), I went into bodypaint 3D painting layout and wanted to paint color. So I created a new color texture with the tool in bodypaint.

Here's where the problem comes in.

If I have the painting brush tool active, my editor view goes to a really dumbed down software render.

My normal texture and displacement texture both disappear. I double checked to make sure enhanced openGL is on and it is, but it is being over ridden by the paint mode in bodypaint.

I have always noticed since BodyPaint first came out, that it's editor view is not the same as others in cinema. Didn't think much about it until now.

The issue is that I can't see where the edges of my icing (frosting) are so that I can paint on them.

And to make things more strange, if I hold down the "3" key so I can spin my view, the redraw goes to a different style of render and actually shows the displacement/normal maps. But then I let go of 3 to start painting again, and displacement/normal disappear.

I know I can use raybrush rendering, but that is not ideal for quick workflow.

Is this normal behavior? Or is it my card? Is my workflow wrong? Should I be painting on the sculpt somehow and then baking?

Thanks for any insight you can share.
  09 September 2012
60 views and not one reply? Has no one else had this issue?

Perhaps I didn't explain well?

Maybe I should just skip over my specific issue, and just ask what is the preferred workflow when sculpting and painting an object within C4D?

lo-res base mesh
subdivide, sculpt, subdivide refine, etc.
Now it's time to paint textures...what's the next step?

Method A)
1 . Bake the sculpt down with displacement/normal maps
2. Add color/reflection/etc. channels in BP and paint on them

Problem with Method A: you can't see the normal map or displacement while painting in BP3D (at least I can't, and I have a decent workstation)

Method B)
1. Create a new material for painting and apply it to the sculpt object
2. paint in the channels you desire (color/reflection/etc.)
3. Bake the sculpt down with displacement/normal maps
4. Load the textures from the material you painted into the appropriate channels in the baked material (this seems like a clunky workflow at best)

Method C) some other method that I am not aware of

Anyone have suggestions?
  09 September 2012
I think Method B is your best bet. You'll want to paint on the sculpt object before baking. You may want/need to lower the subdivision level prior to painting for performance.
  09 September 2012
Thanks Rick...

Now what is the preferred workflow for getting your paint onto the lores baked object from sculpt?

Are you really supposed to load the textures you painted individually into the channels of the baked material? That seems like a really clunky workflow.

Not trying to be negative, I'm just thinking I've missed something in an otherwise cool production workflow.

Thanks again for you tips!
  09 September 2012
The viewport during painting really is that bad in BP. The only time it reverts to the proper OGL-enhanced view is when I have the camera move/rotate/zoom active. The moment I let go, it goes back to the terrible viewport display. And it's even more aggravating when using projection mode, since I have to wait for the projection to be applied before I can even see if I painted the right thing.

It feels like it was the original programming code in BP that's makig the viewport look that bad whenever any of the paint tools are active.

Since they've introduced Sculpting in R14 I really hope they patch up BP, both in its UV and paint tools.
Do what you want to do, not what you think you want to do.
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  09 September 2012
I should hope so. It is a good workflow before and after that point.

I'm actually pretty disappointed in the breakdown in the process between sculpting and painting.

What would make sense, is if Maxon had updated the BP toolset to do vertex painting and work in a similar fashion to the sculpting. There was brief mention of a BP update in the works. I just would hate to think we have to wait until another .5 or larger upgrade before seeing it.

The current workflow leaves me pulling my hair out.
  09 September 2012
I was just over on the Maxon site and it says Bodypaint R14 has been released, and it even speaks of an "improved openGL viewport".

So I'm guessing maybe it didn't make it into the C4D demo?

Hoping this will be coming into C4D R14 release!
  09 September 2012
That improved OpenGL viewport is when using BodyPaint standalone in a regular C4D layout or BP UV edit layout and not painting. There is no improvement in painting mode. This still uses its own software display mode as it's done for a long while.

  09 September 2012
I still think I must be missing something.

Does it not seem ridiculous to have to manually load every painted channel into the new material that gets created on the baked sculpt object?

Or I suppose maybe it would be quicker to just drag the painted material tag over to the new object and then load in the normal and displacement maps.

Either way, what an awful workflow. Seriously. I'm shocked.
  09 September 2012
When in paint mode w. the display is switched over to software shading. This is expected...although there may be a bug in there.
But the main switch to software shading is expected.

All painting in CINEMA has always been done through the software shading. If I was to guess this started as a feature, and I think is what allows you to paint 32x32k images in the view panel...but I think now it is more limitation when compared with newer code bases out there.
On the other hand that pixelated view when painting gives you crisp per-pixel display rather than a smoothed (sampled) display.

Generally I will do my sculpt, lower the resolution 2 steps below the highest level and then do my painting there.
I don't bake anything until the very end...except maybe an AO map.

Haven't had much issue with using the maps at all (except displacements)
Loading in 2-3 maps is not an issue at all.
Mountain out of mole hill here...especially when there are far more important issues in regards to baking.
Although feel free to send in the suggestion...I think they are tired of hearing my requests for sculpting

One thing you can try is to bake your sculpt.
Copy the tag from the resulting bake onto your sculpt object...now paint on your sculpt object.
Caveat there is that you don't want to render the sculpt object ever, so you will need to set the Baked object to be visible in render but not view panel and then set the sculpt to visible in view panel but not in the render.
The views expressed in this post are by no means the opinion of those making the post or of any one person in particular.

Last edited by chi : 09 September 2012 at 02:00 PM.
  09 September 2012
Thanks Chi!

It's a quirky workflow, but it is a workflow. In the end, you are right: mountain out of a molehill. Just will take getting used to.

I appreciate your input.
  10 October 2012
Try using the Raybrush render when painting instead of the standard viewport. Slightly slower than painting directly in viewport but very useful!

Last edited by DrSnooze : 10 October 2012 at 08:47 AM. Reason: Raybrush render
  10 October 2012
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