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Old 11-03-2013, 02:36 PM   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alice
Don't worry, I'm not out to bash you
I appreciate the honesty, though I don't agree with you. I see a strong current of people moving away from the traditional "Girls/dolls" & "Boys/cars" thinking. And even though the generation of players thats in majority now are grown up with that thinking I have a hard time understanding the "Women/pink" and "Men/smacking up a whore in GTA" thinking. Violence aimed specifically towards women sets me off to the extent where it has robbed me of many full game experiences. I simply haven't been able to enjoy the rest of the game.
(Yes, It's cause I've seen violence in relationships up close. But so has a LOT of women.)
But violence on a general note is not something women shy away from. One wouldn't say that game of thrones is a peaceful happy fuzzy family series about baking and dolls. Or that a woman has never picked up a murder mystery with gory details.

I strongly disagree with the women should make games for women though, cause that implies that men should make game's for men and that practically every single game made so far have nothing in appeal to women. And that just isn't true.

I've seen violence towards men from men, and also women. But it didn't stop me from playing games. Isn't just women have harder time when dealing with violence? Violence is a natural thing in life.people play to feel that ancient taste they subconciously miss. Unfo4tunately this is true.we are not nice animals in many regards. We are humans, but our living is based on exploiting other living creatures in many bad ways.
I think it' female turn to participate more in ceeating original game concepts, as it's they who are not satisfied. Don't blame men, just show us what it should be like.
By the way I worked on a casual game, where t2o designers were women. And I totally was for them tochoose the style, direction and so on.there's nothing really stopping women making great games today. The industry is open for talents of both sexes.

If not women, then who could understand better women's need in game tastes? I just don't understand. No one is stopping you, Leigh and other women to make your vision. If men did it for themselves and it didn't cater, then women can make their own.
 
Old 11-03-2013, 02:41 PM   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanga
Its in the quote under the stats.



Quoting the text "Huffington Post: Tech section Nov 3 2013" is not something anyone really cares to go digging for.

I thought we'd already ruled out awful Huffpo guff from this thread earlier on. Seriously.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mister3d
Just curious, what differences are biological in sexes in your opinion? I guess you think very few. I think in society where you live this equality idea is popular. I' say man is closer to wolf, and woman to cat. There are drastic dufferences in sexes, starting from body (women are created to give birth and raise children), hormone levels, and the rest follows those roles. There are natural tendencies, and as I was raised with sister and brother, my mother watched it and clearly boys are more interested in gear and women in clothes. There's nothing stopping people from doing what they like, as we see gays anyway pick what they like regardless of stereotypes. The inner tendencies and instincts are stronger than stereotypes.I didn't see many men secretly playing barbies. You can see differences in behaviour of small children, less than a year.
Then you can take psychology and see how much they differ for sexes. If you think it's all stereotypes, I'd say you really oversimplify this matter. You are right for some extent, there are stereotypes, but thinkin differences are just that, it's way off. Thinking we think and act thesame will lead to major misunderstanding. I just had to reply to this personal note you made, whereas I said my opinion in general. I'd rather hear more constructive replies about what king0d of games women might prefer, also based on age.
Age is very important, as different ages will prefer different games. With age, differences might diminish. I' m surprised you think women don't play shooters much as they are raised on stereotypes. You totally neglect instincts, they just don't exist in your world. Anyway I'm sure you won't hear me. In society where males have to pee sitting notvto sir female felings of equality is sick.
Instead of bashing men for oppression, just come with your own ideas, what female children, adolecscents, middle-aged women would enjoy playing into.


Let's dwell on this for a moment.
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Old 11-03-2013, 02:50 PM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alice
That's the thing. It's politics and the kind of thing that would close the thread. I want to keep it open, therefor (It's not a policy thing) if you want to talk about it, PM me and we'll talk about it.



After having her head handed to her a number of times (and apparently quite unaware of it taking place.)
and when the thread goes sideways in a bad way against her, this is how the OP attempts to stem the tidal wave against her after initiating the socio political topic using a shameless self promoting charlatan to push a phoney agenda/concern.

Now we're into a fruitless, unnecessary and unhelpful nature versus nurture debate/arguing poop storm. Who woulda thunk it possible?

Looks like Kanga has done us all a big favor by inserting some relevant data that is rather eye opening and should now have the OP saying simply, "oh, nevemind."
and return to posting more silly stuff on her own blog site.
 
Old 11-03-2013, 03:15 PM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mister3d
I've seen violence towards men from men, and also women. But it didn't stop me from playing games. Isn't just women have harder time when dealing with violence?


It is more common with violence towards women in close relationships. There is a reason why there is the word as "wifebeater". I am not saying that violence against men doesn't exist, definitely not arguing that. But in our society, violence against women in close relationships are way more common. This abuse is often brush off as "domestic disturbances". And when it even boils down to that it is some what ok to beat up a prostitute cause she isn't worth anything as a human and in a game mechanics... Replace the word "prostitute" with any skin color slander word and its obvious why it irks some.
 
Old 11-03-2013, 03:18 PM   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tama
After having her head handed to her a number of times (and apparently quite unaware of it taking place.)
and when the thread goes sideways in a bad way against her, this is how the OP attempts to stem the tidal wave against her after initiating the socio political topic using a shameless self promoting charlatan to push a phoney agenda/concern.

Now we're into a fruitless, unnecessary and unhelpful nature versus nurture debate/arguing poop storm. Who woulda thunk it possible?

Looks like Kanga has done us all a big favor by inserting some relevant data that is rather eye opening and should now have the OP saying simply, "oh, nevemind."
and return to posting more silly stuff on her own blog site.


Oh no... Some troll is trying to flame me. What on earth SHOULD I DO?
 
Old 11-03-2013, 03:23 PM   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alice
This is a paradow indeed, but maybe on a different level than you think: Highly evolved intelligent and clever thinking scientists use their minds to try prove that we are merely animals run by hormones.
In the long run, this kind of research is used to cement gender stereotypes that goes well beyond an initial animal instinct. We kinda have more evolved brain than monkeys.



http://forumblog.org/2013/10/top-10...s-in-the-world/
Iceland has been number one for a number of years (birthplace of eve online, wohoo!) I suggest you visit sometimes.
Yes, women and men are different on a general note. (Edit, general as in physical and sometimes hormonial) Why use that difference in order to justify treating people differently? There is a richness in a colorful demographic gone lost in that argument.

I think that games like WOW in a really good way embrace differences. You can have a nearly FPS experience when doing PVP battle or a lore/storytelling experience when exploring and questing. I only wish that there would be more casual gaming like games in it that could be accessed through my mobile device, along with guild chat, the armory, the auction house etc.

Conclusion, yes we are different but don't let the monkey forefathers dictate the society we choose to build.

(I personally think hat this kind of reasoning is patriarchy bullshit used to keep women down in the same manner the religion is trying to use creationism to keep people in line. But that is a whole other debate and I'd love to take it with you in a PM instead of here, to keep the thread open. PM me if you want to discuss it.)


There are many time I use the bold part in my reply, but it seems that it never work for me. Anyway, I knew all the replies are coming, I already mentioned what happened to a nobel winner and a top university president (it ended with him stepping down).

But, let me focus on one of your main sentence...

Quote:
"Yes, women and men are different on a general note. (Edit, general as in physical and sometimes hormonial) Why use that difference in order to justify treating people differently? There is a richness in a colorful demographic gone lost in that argument."


Especially this part....

Quote:
Why use that difference in order to justify treating people differently?


There are quotes by Albert Einstein that given the opportunity to live his live again, he would live as a plumber.

http://www.goodreads.com/quotes/400...-again-i-d-be-a

I don't really know why, maybe due how nuclear technology was used in war?

The main thing here is, what did you mean by treating people differently (in positive ways or negative ways) and by whom?

But you can't blame a scientist for saying that 1 + 1 = 2. (Again, this is an example. Not related to gender differences).

And politics should really not rule upon science...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indiana_Pi_Bill

Look, I know people are afraid of such research because they think that history might repeat itself:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stereo...rly_stereotypes

But the thing is, its all in how people are being treated (given help or denied help)? and by who (government with interest or by people that care?)

The problem with this kind of topic, if we were to delve into dna, intelligence, superiority, etc, is going to involve Nazi, Aryan, etc, etc, etc. I'm not not into that mood, enough with the name calling by those reply above already.

And I think I already have a conversation regarding this here and be as nice and politically correct as possible when we were talking about talent and intelligence. Search it up. I think I try not invoke people of certain color and intelligence by actually using people with red hair and skin cancer. But it seems, that thread, since it talk about talent and skill and intelligence and child prodigy, doesn't bring out much trolls and name calling as a topic that talk about boys, girls, and Anita.

So I'm going to leave this topic by giving this two tidbits...

Quote:
In the long run, this kind of research is used to cement gender stereotypes that goes well beyond an initial animal instinct.


Only if you allowed it to be used that way. Strangely, nobody cares if the one that looked bad are the boys...

http://learning.blogs.nytimes.com/2...rls-in-reading/

Only if it was girls that s**tstorm would ensues (and name calling too). I remember reading articles about men education in universities (look at the number yourself) and how a female lecturer talks about men needed to be given negative enforcement (because they often over estimate their abilities) which never asked to step down, of course.

Or this...

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/201..._n_1281236.html

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...er-behaved.html

Anyway, I'm done. I already know what will happen in this thread when someone try to think logical. Oh well...
 
Old 11-03-2013, 03:25 PM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanga
Women over the age of 55 spend more time playing online games than males aged between 15-24 and males aged 25-34 combined.

Overall, women make up 55% of the online gaming population.

Of Zynga users 60% are women.

So what are we talking about then


Simply asking, are there any thoughts on how to grow the number of females playing consoles.
Obviously, women are breaking the whole "games are for boys" tabu, so are people within the industry having any thoughts on how to get them to buy the expensive games?
 
Old 11-03-2013, 03:32 PM   #98
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Quote:
It is more common with violence towards women in close relationships. There is a reason why there is the word as "wifebeater". I am not saying that violence against men doesn't exist, definitely not arguing that. But in our society, violence against women in close relationships are way more common. This abuse is often brush off as "domestic disturbances".


Most studies across the UK and US put it at a 60:40 split.
http://www.theguardian.com/society/...mestic-violence

Quote:
And when it even boils down to that it is some what ok to beat up a prostitute cause she isn't worth anything as a human and in a game mechanics... Replace the word "prostitute" with any skin color slander word and its obvious why it irks some.


Assuming you're refering to GTA here, you're able to beat up anyone you want, of any gender, colour or occupation. I fail to see the inequality.
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Old 11-03-2013, 03:33 PM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alice
As I said when starting the thread, I wonder what the ongoing efforts are to tap into a growing market on the console side of it.


I see. You said: " The largest growing market are probably the female platform gamers." Do you have any source for this? Would love to read some more about it.

Did some reading on the subject and still a bit confused as to what a game "geared towards women" should be like according to various articles and blogposts by women and they all seem to vary quite a bit. Some want the cute art style, lots of pinks and casual gameplay etc others seem offended by that idea and just want the typical console game with option to perhaps play as a female or a the very least feature interesting female leads. Anyway, to my knowledge there are already plenty of games that cater to both of these preferences out there yet you clearly consider the market to be untapped in the regard so I still wonder what kind of games you feel game developers should be doing but aren't?
 
Old 11-03-2013, 03:36 PM   #100
Tama
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alice
Oh no... Some troll is trying to flame me. What on earth SHOULD I DO?


I am almost charmed by what is probably your idea of pillow talk...
However, I think that you are way too young for me given that you appear to argue like a child.

But since you ask the question about what you should do, you can simply continue doing what you are best at, when confronted with the truth about yourself, resort to name calling as you've done all throughout this silly thread.
It is a time honored technique of the politically correct to simply marginalize opposition with ad hominem attacks. However, it is intellectually dishonest and lazy.

Or you could go post more random thoughts on your blog where you are far less likely to encounter the truth.
 
Old 11-03-2013, 03:37 PM   #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fablefox
But it seems, that thread, since it talk about talent and skill and intelligence and child prodigy, doesn't bring out much trolls and name calling as a topic that talk about boys, girls, and Anita.
So I'm going to leave this topic by giving this two tidbits...


As you are leaving the topic I see no reason to ask questions on what you really meant by that post. But cheers!
 
Old 11-03-2013, 03:45 PM   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tama
Blah blah...you can simply continue doing what you are best at... resort to name calling as you've done all throughout this silly thread.


You are trying to establish a "truth" that I've resorted again and again to name calling. When I call you troll it's cause you are trolling.
As you have no interest in contributing, please just leave me be.
 
Old 11-03-2013, 04:03 PM   #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ayame
I see. You said: " The largest growing market are probably the female platform gamers." Do you have any source for this? Would love to read some more about it.

Did some reading on the subject and still a bit confused as to what a game "geared towards women" should be like according to various articles and blogposts by women and they all seem to vary quite a bit. Some want the cute art style, lots of pinks and casual gameplay etc others seem offended by that idea and just want the typical console game with option to perhaps play as a female or a the very least feature interesting female leads. Anyway, to my knowledge there are already plenty of games that cater to both of these preferences out there yet you clearly consider the market to be untapped in the regard so I still wonder what kind of games you feel game developers should be doing but aren't?


I am not currently developing console games so I haven't really taken a deep dive into that. There are some basic mechanics that differs when marketing towards women and marketing towards men. If would be interesting to see if game developers are using some of that when designing game platforms and mechanics.
But then, I'm not trying to push an agenda here, since I've been away from the loop of things for almost two years I'm more diving into it, wondering what the ongoing thoughts are amongst developers.
edit; I'll see if I can dig up any more numbers for you.

Last edited by Alice : 11-03-2013 at 04:19 PM.
 
Old 11-03-2013, 04:17 PM   #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imashination
Most studies across the UK and US put it at a 60:40 split.
http://www.theguardian.com/society/...mestic-violence


An article from the same paper.

Quote:
Originally Posted by imashination
Assuming you're refering to GTA here, you're able to beat up anyone you want, of any gender, colour or occupation. I fail to see the inequality.


We seem to have two different points of view here. I see a society/world where violence towards women is a huge problem. Where women are beaten to death in relationships and it's brushed aside. Where women who are raped are asked the question "what did you wear" as if they "brought it upon themselves". And in that world the ability to being able so beat anyone up doesn't make it equal. I am not playing the race card here, but to make a comparison to show how I see it; If you could go around calling everyone "fucking nigger cunts", black women included, it wouldn't make it any less despicable or any less inequal. To me. That is how I see it. You can choose to see it however you want.
 
Old 11-03-2013, 10:16 PM   #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tuna
Quoting the text "Huffington Post: Tech section Nov 3 2013" is not something anyone really cares to go digging for.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/..._n_1655164.html

No idea what the publication is just came across it while google(ing). But anyhow the next time you are ganked by someone with a gamer tag like ol'55 watch out, it could be your Gran!
I was very interested to see those numbers as I have never been able to find user figures anywhere where I did not have to pay for them. I always thought the highest amount of users were males around 34.

Maybe someone here knows more about current stats and can fill us in.
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