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Old 02-27-2013, 11:42 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThE_JacO
Or, it might eventually get the work to happen elsewhere. See Cameron in Pinewood and Alien
http://www.slashfilm.com/how-james-...-set-of-aliens/

Something that happened repeatedly after that, just not always this publicly.

While Pinewood still more or less thrives...


By your own description, Pinewood is an excellent place to work with a long future ahead of it.
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Old 02-28-2013, 12:03 AM   #32
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No, Pinewood still lives because of its unicity, but other stages don't exist anymore.

While Pinewood still exists because you can't find a water capable gigantic silent stage anywhere else, so you are forced by a unique offer, the smaller stages and a lot of commercials and other smaller jobs, and actually even a lot of film work, has gone elsewhere because it was just unsustainable to do it there, and international crews (all used to a very high standard of living, you're not talking people who just jumped off a boat coming from North Korea finally free of oppression) were more than once driven absolutely batshit insane.

By my description, in VFX in the States, that'd leave you with ILM because it's big, unique in services, and owned by Disney, but you could expect every single one of the sub500 people shops to become unsustainably expensive and see its load moved elsewhere.

With so many people in this thread putting their faith in the mid to small studios (despite the fact historically they are some of the thoughest to keep alive), it's worth pointing out that unionizing a craft has seldom, if ever, played in favour of the small boutique in the international panorama, it usually wiped them off.

You should also keep in mind that while lighting and rigging are unionized, and therefore people often point the finger at those as valid film related examples, they are actually far removed from CGI, which doesn't have a lot in common with it.
Other, actually more similar, disciplines like writers, directors, colourists etc, closer to us in their providing content and intellectual work with little hard-hat safety needs and manual labour are historically better served by guilds and trade associations, that has benefitted players on many different scales.
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Old 02-28-2013, 12:48 AM   #33
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Did Prometheus need a water capable stage?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThE_JacO
While Pinewood still exists because you can't find a water capable gigantic silent stage anywhere else, so you are forced by a unique offer...


Ridley Scott shot Prometheus at Pinewood, and that film did not require a water capable stage. Or did it..?

Quote:
Other, actually more similar, disciplines like writers, directors, colourists etc, closer to us in their providing content and intellectual work with little hard-hat safety needs and manual labour are historically better served by guilds and trade associations, that has benefitted players on many different scales.


The closest parallel to VFX right now is our sister industry, animation. Wreck-It Ralph and How to Train Your Dragon used Maya/Houdini/Nuke artists working under Local 839 contracts. Compared to VFX artists, 839 artists get more reasonable work hours. They also get severance pay, three pensions, and health and dental insurance. I worked under an 839 contract at Warner Bros Feature Animation in 2004, and it was a good deal.

However, VFX artists outside the United States do not require health benefits. I would be open to a union structure like that enjoyed by the groups that you describe, if that is what VFX artists around the world would prefer.
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Old 02-28-2013, 01:02 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Celshader
The closest parallel to VFX right now is our sister industry, animation. Wreck-It Ralph and How to Train Your Dragon used Maya/Houdini/Nuke artists working under Local 839 contracts. Compared to VFX artists, 839 artists get more reasonable work hours. They also get severance pay, three pensions, and health and dental insurance. I worked under an 839 contract at Warner Bros Feature Animation in 2004, and it was a good deal.

Huh?
You know that DW just laid off a third of a K in people, and has been struggling for a while? And that Disney closed MORE VFX facilities than it owns or opened, not to mention did things like moving JCM outside the States in large part to avoid some union implications, right?

You are also talking 100% studio owned, NOT independent shops, so another degree of removal yet.

Quote:
However, VFX artists outside the United States do not require health benefits. I would be open to a union structure like that enjoyed by the groups that you describe, if that is what VFX artists around the world would prefer.

Again, absolutely wrong.
I've always had healthcare everywhere I worked (and that's a considerable number of countries at this point, by most people's standards).
You have a fairly distorted perspective on how things work outside the States if you think people don't require healthcare. If anything, pretty much anywhere EXCEPT in the States, sticking to the anglophone first world, it's EXPECTED, not something you fight for.
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Old 02-28-2013, 01:12 AM   #35
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According to this Ridley Scott is connected to a group that controls several studios with Pinewood in the name. There's one in Toronto also.
 
Old 02-28-2013, 01:27 AM   #36
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Scott, and a few other directors, work there for a very simple reason:
They are English and want to (rightfully) do what they can to both sustain the English industry, AND the companies they actually own in full or in part.

Quote:
Ridley Scott said of working at Pinewood and Shepperton: “It’s my heritage, my personal heritage, I film everywhere in the world and I think all things considered what we have to offer here are as good as anything you’re going to get in Hollywood.”


It's not like other directors don't often do the same for their own countries, IE: Luhrmann and Miller here in Oz, and so on.
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Old 02-28-2013, 01:34 AM   #37
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VFX artists outside the United States do not require health benefits from a union.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThE_JacO
Huh?
You know that DW just laid off a third of a K in people, and has been struggling for a while?


...and Disney has a year's worth of work for its 839 artists.


Quote:
Again, absolutely wrong.
I've always had healthcare everywhere I worked (and that's a considerable number of countries at this point, by most people's standards).
You have a fairly distorted perspective on how things work outside the States if you think people don't require healthcare. If anything, pretty much anywhere EXCEPT in the States, sticking to the anglophone first world, it's EXPECTED, not something you fight for.


Please forgive my poor choice of words. Here is what I wrote:

Quote:
VFX artists outside the United States do not require health benefits.


Here is what I meant:

Quote:
VFX artists outside the United States do not require health benefits from a union.


I can see VFX artists outside the United States fighting for points and maybe a pension to supplement retirement income. However, I do not see them fighting for health benefits, since they already have health care coverage.
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Old 02-28-2013, 01:34 AM   #38
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