Baby rigging issues

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Old 10 October 2012   #1
Baby rigging issues

Hi, I have this baby model I rigged with bones, a bit of a nightmare with a high poly mesh as I discovered. Is there anyway to make this easier when using skin modifier, especially the mouth shapes? Or using another approach because I can't reduce the poly count of the unsmoothed model.

If I was to go with morph targets, I was wondering how that is set up when I don't have the head seperate from the body. I have a general understanding of how morphs work in max, and I assume it goes above the skin modifier in the stack, but I wonder how to seperate the head for morph targets.

Maybe a good tutorial somewhere? Cheers.
 
Old 10 October 2012   #2
Well first detach the head, copy it, then put edit poly modifier top of it, "weld" vertices on neck to "reattach" it to the body, add morpher modifier and skin modifier... continue with creation of morph targets on the copied head.... but a little bit of warning, this is slow as hell, and it will especially be slow on your high poly model.
 
Old 10 October 2012   #3
I wouldn't want to try and make morph targets on a mesh that dense. It can be done but I think it'll be tough.

I personally haven't used any but I know there are scripts/plugins for reducing mesh subdivisions, like this one: http://www.mariussilaghi.com/products/turboreverse
Might be worth a try.

Also, correct me if I'm wrong anyone, but I don't think it's necessary to separate the head for the morph targets. I've seen that it doesn't really save you anything in terms of file size to strip the body out. If you're worried about keeping the scene clean you can just hide the polys below the neck.
 
Old 10 October 2012   #4
How about detach the head. So everything (head and body) are still skinned. These will be used as a driver then take your single mesh (Render mesh) and skinwrap it to the drivers (Head and Body) apply the morpher to the detached head driver.

-=Chris

Last edited by chewbacca007 : 10 October 2012 at 06:51 PM.
 
Old 10 October 2012   #5
Personally I wouldnt even attempt to make morphs/ directly skin a mesh that dense. I would make a copy and reduce the poly count, then rig that. Then skinwrap your high poly mesh to this lower poly version.
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Old 10 October 2012   #6
I was starting think that, use skin wrap over a low poly mesh. Never used skin wrap or morphs, sound like an easier option.
Originally Posted by MattRennie: Personally I wouldnt even attempt to make morphs/ directly skin a mesh that dense. I would make a copy and reduce the poly count, then rig that. Then skinwrap your high poly mesh to this lower poly version.
 
Old 10 October 2012   #7
PacerMike is right. I think it was PAul Neale who first pointed out why it was unnecessary to detach a head to do morph targeting animation. There is no gain after you put all those modifiers on top and you are only giving up more cpu power for no reason.He provided convincing argument using file sizes and it's on his rigging dvd. Remember morphs work on differences between vertices, and the actual difference in vertex positions between one morph and another are small, the file size is practically identical(once you delete the source mesh), , the poly count is identical, the vertex count is identical. So why the trepidation in making morph based animation?
It's not as if you are skinning the model, which would require skinwrap. Go ahead with morpher is my advice...is the head higher poly count then the body? It should be...if not use zbrush to decimate less crucial parts of the body or simply use edit mesh modifier on top of stack and delete uneeded polys. This reduces the work you need to do and speeds up viewport display. The only problm u might have is with viewport update.You can assist with this by isolating only sections of the mesh you r working on using edit mesh/deletion technique described. remember -deleting vertices with edit mesh doesn't delete the vertices of original.
Once you have all the morphs you require, link them up to a slider control, as in the standard Osipa system. there r a few scripts that enable you to do this easily, but the best is the RigVadar, which is a bones/morph hybrid.

Last edited by DannyBoy3 : 10 October 2012 at 08:01 PM.
 
Old 10 October 2012   #8
I would import the object into zbrush and sculpt the morphs. Import the sculpted versions and use them as morph targets. For rigging you can just do a rough weighting with envelopes and the paint blend weights. That seems to work well.
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Old 10 October 2012   #9
I was going to say that sculpting in zbrush also gives you all the subdivision models to ease the load in max. By the way, didn't your baby model come with a cage and a smooth mod on top...I mean, didnt the modler olrvide the basic mesh before subdivison? Or is it a bought model, or one just downloaded from wherever? It's not a DAZ or poser model is it?
 
Old 10 October 2012   #10
I made the model and I have a few lower lods. Having not done much rigging, I could have planned it out better.
I could use mudbox to do the morph targets as well, I sculpted it in that program.
 
Old 10 October 2012   #11
Thanks, very helpful.

Originally Posted by DannyBoy3: PacerMike is right. I think it was PAul Neale who first pointed out why it was unnecessary to detach a head to do morph targeting animation. There is no gain after you put all those modifiers on top and you are only giving up more cpu power for no reason.He provided convincing argument using file sizes and it's on his rigging dvd. Remember morphs work on differences between vertices, and the actual difference in vertex positions between one morph and another are small, the file size is practically identical(once you delete the source mesh), , the poly count is identical, the vertex count is identical. So why the trepidation in making morph based animation?
It's not as if you are skinning the model, which would require skinwrap. Go ahead with morpher is my advice...is the head higher poly count then the body? It should be...if not use zbrush to decimate less crucial parts of the body or simply use edit mesh modifier on top of stack and delete uneeded polys. This reduces the work you need to do and speeds up viewport display. The only problm u might have is with viewport update.You can assist with this by isolating only sections of the mesh you r working on using edit mesh/deletion technique described. remember -deleting vertices with edit mesh doesn't delete the vertices of original.
Once you have all the morphs you require, link them up to a slider control, as in the standard Osipa system. there r a few scripts that enable you to do this easily, but the best is the RigVadar, which is a bones/morph hybrid.
 
Old 10 October 2012   #12
I personally would us the free firm modeling tools in Max or export to mud or Z but I find it easy and faster to keep it all in Max.

As some one pointed out as I skimmed over it. I never bother with the idea of cutting the head off. Dynamically welding verts while animation is playing will slow things down a lot. The skin wrap method can work well but based on the model you showed I don't think I would bother. It doesn't look to dense to me, it looks like you will be able to get lots of detail out of it.
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http://paulneale.com
 
Old 10 October 2012   #13
ok thanks for the info
 
Old 10 October 2012   #14
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