Jack Kilyan - Digital Matte Painting Projection Project

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  03 March 2015
Hey Nick,

thanks for the reply,

no I don't have a specific time frame for the shot, I originally just had in mind around a 15 second shot, would you suggest shortening it?

In terms of the final few seconds, the idea was the final piece of architecture as going to be a large "main" monastery which was revealed from behind the mountain edge?

Maybe it would be worth me creating a shorter camera animation?

I will be moving into Nuke this week so any changes I do to my camera will be final after the next day or so!

Thanks again for all the help
 
  03 March 2015
Hi Jack,

The intention to have the reveal on the main piece of architecture is a good one, it gives the shot purpose and gives you a chance to show off your range of ability. My worry was more about putting a reel together. You only have realistically 2 minutes for a reel, any more than that will be to long IMO (some may disagree). So by the time you are 10 seconds into a reel, usually you will be into shot 2 or 3 including a title plate. If you have shots that are 15 second long, that will eat into a big part of the time you have to show yourself off. So I would see if you can get the shot closer to half that length and see if you can do that without losing any of the impact. If you can it will save you a huge amount of render time as well as not taking up too much reel time. 8 seconds would still be considered a reasonably long shot. In production most sit around the 2 - 5 seconds range. I've worked on one big long shot that was 1 minute 30 before now, but when it came to cutting a reel, I only used about 3 or 4 seconds of it...!

Just some things to bear in mind. Your thought process again is solid, just make sure you won't put a lot of extra work into something that then takes up so much time in your reel that you're tempted to cut it down or redo as a shorter piece

N
__________________
__________

Nick Marshall
Head of Environments / Generalists
Double Negative :: Vancouver
www.dneg.com
 
  03 March 2015
Update!

Hi again everyone, time for another update!

Firstly, thanks again for your help Nick I can't over emphasize how awesome of you it is for putting time and effort into helping me out!

In terms of my shot and my reel, I'll be graduating from University in the summer and this shot is kinda my whole reel at the moment, I decided to try and create something big and as impressive as possible to show to various companies and aim to get a starter position maybe as a runner and work my way up. I'll definitely keep in my the length of shots in the future though, especially as you mention that most shots are as short as 2-5 seconds! and as I create more of this type of work create shorter length shots.

My teachers wanted me to create a matte still as a "proof of concept" of how my whole shot will look like. (apart from my final temple)



This took up some of my time and I created the pillar's for the shot in Zbrush and the basic flags in Maya to create kind of a "super concept". Would love to get some feedback on what you think works well/not well with the matte work.

I discovered that it's damn hard finding the right photos to work from! I spent so much time finding images which were would fit, especially struggling to get them at a super nice HQ. (Seems like 70% of Himalayan images on the web are taken from an old film camera from ages ago!).

Nevertheless it was a good exercise to get myself more used to matte techniques!

The image is from the final frame and although the camera move reveals a lot more terrain than what is shown in that image I didn't wanna waste that matte work so I've gone ahead and started to project in Nuke.




I created this quick test render to show where I am at with it currently.

Here are some shots of my Node Tree and the 3D view in Nuke.




So basically I feel like I'm at the stage where now I just need to keep on creating matte pieces to project onto my geo (where all the checkerboard is). + (small area on the right which doesn't have checkerboard yet but there is geo so I need to either widen my projection camera or create another one.

Once all the "base" matte work is in, I'll then patch areas which are broken by the camera move!

One small issue I've noticed and not sure why it is occuring is that for some reason some of my matte work isnt being cut out correctly by it's alpha? The geo underneath still shows and shows as pure white?



This image shows what I mean, its also happening right at the very back bit of the projection. I'm using PNG's with an alpha channel which should cut out the exact shape of my RBG images so not sure why this is happening? Any insight would be great!

Hope to ramp up my speed a bit this week and complete as much of the base matte work as possible and build my CGI assets (the main temple).

Hope to update you guys soon again and once again thanks for all input!
 
  03 March 2015
Just a small text update, I realised those white areas which weren't cut out correctly from my Alpha were just where I hadn't premultiplied my Read's! The silliest of things to overlook, hope to update with all my base matte work on the geo soon!
 
  03 March 2015
Very inspiring project Jack I'm starting on the same journey but with Fusion. Best of luck and I'll be following your thread with interest!
 
  04 April 2015
Good progress, keep it up! Looks like you'll have a fair bit of patching to do to fix all the stretching / texture duplication, but it's on the right track.
Hope it's still going well, keep us updated!
__________________
__________

Nick Marshall
Head of Environments / Generalists
Double Negative :: Vancouver
www.dneg.com
 
  04 April 2015
Hey Panupat thank you very much! I'm glad you are enjoying seeing my project evolve!

Hey again Nick, definitely lots of patching in this shot, I've realized you were definitely correct when mentioning before how having a more complex geo can cause me some issues! Lesson learnt for the future!

Anyhow here is a little update on where I am, I wish I had been able to update this thread sooner, but with a big group project going on at University along side this one, I haven't quite had as much time as I would of liked!

But enough of the excuses

So here is where my shot is at so far:-



I have all the geo covered now, but the matte work is still very rough and has a lot of patching needed, and some basic fixes with blending seams and such. I've also played around with creating physical clouds in Maya using the maya water dynamics, this way I could have my camera physically flying through some cloud coverage and bursting through it as it reaches over the ridge.

Aswell as the clouds I rendered out a depth pass as an animation and comped that onto of my scene. It's nice to create some world atmosphere ontop of my matte work in Nuke but I realize I'm limited to the shape of my geo for the depth pass, which isn't really that good if I then cut out the geo shape using alphas in my matte.

Here's my current Nuke tree:-



So it's starting to come together now, and hell I've learnt so much in this process which has been great!

I'm currently rendering out some CG pillars to comp in which I hope to have in this week. I'm also heading to FMX in Stuttgart in 2 weeks time so I hope I can have this shot done by then so I can show it to recruiters!

What I feel like I have left to do:- Patch stretched areas / Improve blending between some photo elements / Comp in CG assets / More clouds but on cards within Nuke / Final grade and grain.

Does it sound like I am missing anything important out of that?

Again a big thank you to everyone who has helped me over the past couple of months, I wouldn't be here without you!
 
  04 April 2015
Hi Jack, looks like you are cracking on, you'll have some long days ahead to get this finished in 2 weeks, but getting it prepped for fmx is a good plan, it's a good time for DMP again at the moment.
At this point you probably want to start focussing in on what you can do to get the shot looking photoreal. Do you have a master image that you are using as a reference to match to in terms of color and lighting? I find its usually good to have one image that captures what you are after even if your layout is very different. If you can post up a ref that sums up what you want the shot to look like we can probably help you more to get the shot looking great

N
__________________
__________

Nick Marshall
Head of Environments / Generalists
Double Negative :: Vancouver
www.dneg.com
 
  04 April 2015
Hi Nick, thank you, yeah I have a few images, I'll explain my thought process.

Originally the image I attempted to base my matte work off was:-



I really liked the saturated colours and that rich blue sky. Obviously this image is a pano and has a ton of lens distortion so I found I didn't think I couldn't use it for much matte work.

Honestly I found trying find suitable images (over 4k pixels) of the himalayas pretty hard. I've been through google/flickr and cgtextures a ton of times.

So I'm not sure if I can really achieve that initial photo anymore, so I've been working a lot with this image:-



Very different to the original one I chose but I found I could find more images similar to this (not just in colour but also lighting and exposure).

I'd love to hear what you think would be a good path to go down from here for the next two weeks.

Thank you again so much for all your help! I cant tell you how much I appreciate it!
 
  04 April 2015
So I finished rendered some of my CG assets this morning, I used the original Sun and Sky from my initial Maya file to light them, they're still not CC'd correctly but I figured it's probably best to get my matte work all solid and then CC compared to that.



Just a quick comp in to help see how the shot is coming together
 
  04 April 2015
Hi all

Hey all!

With FMX only a few days away I thought I'd show you my ~finished~ piece. I put finished in those wiggly bars because it's not quite as finished as I originally had planned all that time ago when I first started this project but I think I was probably a bit ambitious with everything I had planned!

Anyway I may continue to work on this piece after FMX and try to improve it, or I may just take all the knowledge I've learn't and apply that to another piece and see how much I can push that

Thanks a huge bunch to everyone whose helped me on this forum, especially Nick!



Thanks again everyone, hope you like the final video and breakdown, would still always love to hear critiques and comments
 
  05 May 2015
Hi Jack,

Absolutely no problem at all! As you can probably tell, I had hoped to offer a bit more support but unfortunately you embarked on this project at the time I was busy moving myself and my family across the world so time was a bit of a luxury.
Great to see that you completed it though, if you want to return to this at some point I'm sure we'll be able to push it a step further, and you should definitely post up any new projects you start in the future.
__________________
__________

Nick Marshall
Head of Environments / Generalists
Double Negative :: Vancouver
www.dneg.com
 
  05 May 2015
Hi Nick,

No worries, I really appreciated all the time you gave to me already!

This project was definitely a HUGE learning curve, but I'm really excited to start on more DMP projects in the near future.

I actually spoke to Chris Jaques from D-Neg last week at FMX and he mentioned to me you were moving so I have to double thank you for the time you gave me, it's really awesome of you!

Really hoping to work my way to a runner position at D-Neg in the future and learn from the best!

To finish this thread I've entered the CG Student Awards:

http://www.cgstudentawards.com/stud...nim/jack-kilyan

So to anyone who is viewing this thread if you could check out this project/my entry that would be awesome!

Special thanks again Nick, hope to speak again soon.
 
  05 May 2015
Not a problem, happy to help!
That's cool that you met Chris, he's a good guy, we worked together quite a lot in the past when he was still working as an artist. We actually started at Dneg just a few weeks apart... time flies!
Hope FMX was fun, i'll definitely have to make it out there one year, it looks like a cool event! Good luck with the CG Student awards, I don't know much about how that runs, but I hope your entry goes down well!
__________________
__________

Nick Marshall
Head of Environments / Generalists
Double Negative :: Vancouver
www.dneg.com
 
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