At what point do we hold the schools accountable?

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  02 February 2013
Quote: Well MICA in Baltimore has a good traditional Art school program.
The MIT Media Lab and Carnegie Mellon University university are fantastic places to learn new media.

I alluded to this earlier, but Roberto's post about his wife's organization fighting a "bad" school caused me to really want to elaborate on my thoughts a little more. IMO, those of us who make a living in this field have a responsibility to try and be good stewards of the craft. To try and make sure we don't let things get too out of hand and to try to give as good advice as we can with the knowledge we have. That includes recommending (or NOT recommending schools).

One of my pet peeves is when people have no issue bashing a place they've never even set foot in, but have only "heard about", or "read about", or "knew someone who knew someone who went there". The same applies when people laud the reputations of schools they know nothing about. For example, I know for a fact (because I know some of the people who teach there and because my company has occasionally worked with students from that school), that one of of the schools listed in the quote above DOES NOT EVEN OFFER THE PROGRAM LISTED IN THE QUOTE. This school IS a very good school, but if you're looking into "New Media" or CG of any kind, or fx/editing, yeah, you get to do a independent study for one semester at the end of your senior year. That ... is ... IT. And the place is far more expensive then even the Art Institutes that get beat up all the time for being too costly. Even though you would actually get more hands on "new media" and CG work at a good (yeah, not many of them but there are one or two. We have some grads working for us and they learned a crap ton) AI then you would at the school mentioned in the quote. Yet that school gets brought up on this board all the time as one of THE places to go for that type of education. Which leads me to believe that a lot of people are suffering from group think around here. I've seen this happen with other schools as well (good schools that don't really offer what someone on this board would be looking for but people get told that these places have sterling reputations ...). Basically, "Well, I've heard so many other people proclaim this school as good AND it's a "Non-Profit" so it MUST be good. I'll start recommending it.

That's all coming from a board with professional members on it who SHOULD be doing better homework and yet we don't (I've been guilty of it myself in the past). So you can just imagine how easy it would be for someone to end up at a bad school even IF they're done their homework. While I certainly wouldn't expect us to form up a union to go after "bad schools", I'd like to think we could all make a little more of an effort when recommending schools. If you haven't REALLY looked into a place, you probably shouldn't be recommending it (or bashing it for that matter).

Quote: One of my pet peeves is watching people ignore the lessons history has to offer.

It is scary how similar the mentality of eternal growth was entranced in the American culture in in the 20's.

And what also blows my mind is how people tend to forget how INCREDIBLY BAD things got in the 1930's.


Quote: It is possible that the Mcdonalds wage today gives more quality of life than what some parents brought home with much more effort 50 years ago. Technology evolves.
I see electricians, plumbers, etc have a comparatively good life here while most with a degree have unfulfilled expectations due to the Education Bubble.

That's probably a bit of an exaggeration. You have to keep inflation in the picture. WHen you do that you see that this statement probably isn't true. This actually IS the first generation that will likely not do better than their parents. The cost of schooling has skyrocketed while salaries have come way down and cost of living has increased dramatically. Add to that the fact that college no longer gets you a definite job like it use to and you have a recipe for an entire generation of 20-30 somethings moving back in with their parents after college.

The real issue is that for our field (and many others), salaries are not increasing at the rate that student loan debt is and the cost of living is outstripping everything. Meaning that you could get a well paying job that starts you at, say 55000 right of college (an actual example from my sister), but your loans are so high that you're functionally making only about 40000 after your loans. Of course that's BEFORE you take out rent/taxes/groceries, etc etc.

Last edited by Crotalis : 02 February 2013 at 04:15 AM.
  02 February 2013
Quote: This actually IS the first generation that will likely not do better than their parents. The cost of schooling has skyrocketed while salaries have come way down and cost of living has increased dramatically.

Cost of live have decreased in Food, Communications, Home appliances, Clothing, Traveling long distances(short distances it got more expensive).

It has increased several times in Education, Health Care and Housing(here depends what kind of place, housing, local taxes but overall it can be said so).
This are all heavy regulated/taxed markets where in first two people think they are not part of a market because they think they are doing good deeds and for good deeds a market place is beneath them, another is the house ownership/investment mantra.
In general education the results are not better than 30 or 40 years ago - evidence say they are worse in Anglo and European Latin countries, but the costs got much more expensive compared to inflation.
  02 February 2013
Originally Posted by Bullit: Cost of live have decreased in Food,

Check your sources again. In developed countries it very much has increased.
  03 March 2013
Costs of food in Europe has sky-rocketed, and continues to do so. News for cost of food rises
Horsemeat scandal: food prices 'may rise', Tesco boss admits

Warning of huge food price rise: Awful weather will hammer family ...
Jan 4, 2013 Managing director Mark Price says recent food price increases are 'just the tip of the iceberg'.

Food prices are rising and it's going to get worse - Telegraph
telegraph ... Consumer Tips Household bills
Nov 3, 2012 The cost of the weekly grocery shop has increased by a third since the credit crisis struck, and food inflation is expected to get even worse as a ...

Food prices to rise sharply, says Waitrose boss - Telegraph
telegraph Food and Drink Food and Drink News
Jan 4, 2013 The price of basic food items could rise by as much as five per cent this year because of miserable weather last autumn, the managing director ...

Cost of food 'not going to stop' rising, warns UK chief scientist ...
telegraph Food and Drink Food and Drink News
Jan 2, 2013 Food price inflation will only get worse as the rising global population and climate change add to the volatility faced by British consumers, the ...

Give Thanks for Low Food Prices as They'll Rise Next Year ...
Nov 21, 2012 Americans may want to freeze the leftovers from Thanksgiving dinner, as retail food prices are expected to rise next year, sparked by the ...

Food prices expected to rise after second wettest summer on record ...

Is this justified? No.
More then ever it's important to have highly educated people who need to solve the issues we are facing. We can solve poverty (crime), hunger and big diseases like cancer.
School should be much cheaper, if not free, not more expensive. Books too.
That is investment in the future.

"No Bucks, NO Buck Rogers!"

VFX rule no. 387
# Just redo it!

Last edited by Als : 03 March 2013 at 08:35 AM.
  03 March 2013
Originally Posted by leigh: This scapegoating culture we live in today is really disheartening. People need to take responsibility for themselves instead of blaming their failures on everyone around them.

I couldn't agree more, so true for so many aspects of modern society!
  03 March 2013
Schools don't deserve all the blame, because after all there are quite a few programs that have been labeled "crap" that have students that have gone one to do great things in the industry. Unfortunately, a big part of "getting in" and getting real learning on the job has a lot to do with you social skills and social connections I'm finding. It's kind of screwed up, because it means people in the industry a lot of times aren't willing to help you out knowing or thinking that that will be the last of you and it happens a lot. Most schools level of "teaching" is extremely inadequate, even most professionals that reviewed hundreds if not thousands of reels will tell you. The only thing I can say is that students that are dedicated need to ban together and actually learn while producing projects to create your own "magic." If you're not willing to do that after multiple people denied you entrance in than probably you are more to blame than the school and you should re-evaluate your career options.
  03 March 2013
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