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Old 02-07-2013, 03:28 AM   #1
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Warrior Mage WIP

Well, i am a bit pissed, got ( again ) the rejection letter from a concept/game company. I want to show to myself i can do that job. This is my lineart, and i would love to hear some serious criticizm. Anatomy, lineart, whatever comes to your mind. I cannot figure out what i am doing wrong, so, please, help

I know i "got" it, i just do not have the right "advice" on how to get better and progress to professional level. I am self taught artist with no idea what i am doing wrong, and will not attend any school soon.

I will draw in any criticism, it is very welcomed!

 
Old 02-07-2013, 01:14 PM   #2
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Hey, sorry about the rejection letter, but I'd say someone who shows talent like this, and i was looking, I'd hire, so you do 'got it', and in answer to your question, you gotta work on it.

Basically the pencil art is all good, as are the details, but looking long and hard, I got to say that from the belly down, the pose of the character falls flat. It doesn't look like the character is 'standing', the waist and the hips and stomach don't give that impression, they don't quite match the torso, and so the weight of the character looks unbalanced. The facial expression too, is somewhat blank, it does not help me in deciding where she as a character 'is at'.

Now I dont know if they wanted the scene more dramatic, like her throwing / casting the spell, it would add drama to the piece, which they may (with the pose) thought was lacking, and the reason for the letter. As an example I'd say look at a pitcher throwing a ball, or address the issue of her slightly off balance stance.

Which ever you choose, I've no doubt you can do it. Good luck.

PS I think you've really got to pose a character that really F...ing screams, "intensity", because it gets people attention when sending off work. Then only second they'll look at the details.

Last edited by cojam : 02-07-2013 at 01:23 PM.
 
Old 02-07-2013, 02:05 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cojam
Hey, sorry about the rejection letter, but I'd say someone who shows talent like this, and i was looking, I'd hire, so you do 'got it', and in answer to your question, you gotta work on it.

Basically the pencil art is all good, as are the details, but looking long and hard, I got to say that from the belly down, the pose of the character falls flat. It doesn't look like the character is 'standing', the waist and the hips and stomach don't give that impression, they don't quite match the torso, and so the weight of the character looks unbalanced. The facial expression too, is somewhat blank, it does not help me in deciding where she as a character 'is at'.

Now I dont know if they wanted the scene more dramatic, like her throwing / casting the spell, it would add drama to the piece, which they may (with the pose) thought was lacking, and the reason for the letter. As an example I'd say look at a pitcher throwing a ball, or address the issue of her slightly off balance stance.

Which ever you choose, I've no doubt you can do it. Good luck.

PS I think you've really got to pose a character that really F...ing screams, "intensity", because it gets people attention when sending off work. Then only second they'll look at the details.


Thank you very much for the feedback, i really appreciate it! I can see what you are talking about ( unbalanced standing ) and i will try and correct it! One note: i didn't get test, they rejected me based on my portfolio, and when i got rejected ( i am sorry, i was really really pissed, i know i am not THAT bad, and i also know i need to learn and practice more ) i try to channel my frustration of the moment and disappointment in myself to this picture. And i gave it my best.

I know that they probably saw my portfolio, saw that i do not have art with the style they want, and got rejected automatically, without question. I still work hard, and, someday, i hope someone will see that i have "something".

I will try to make this image more dynamic, and dramatic, just to figure out how to do it

Again, thank you very much!
 
Old 02-07-2013, 03:05 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CKABEH
Thank you very much for the feedback, i really appreciate it! I can see what you are talking about ( unbalanced standing ) and i will try and correct it! One note: i didn't get test, they rejected me based on my portfolio, and when i got rejected ( i am sorry, i was really really pissed, i know i am not THAT bad, and i also know i need to learn and practice more ) i try to channel my frustration of the moment and disappointment in myself to this picture. And i gave it my best.

I know that they probably saw my portfolio, saw that i do not have art with the style they want, and got rejected automatically, without question. I still work hard, and, someday, i hope someone will see that i have "something".

I will try to make this image more dynamic, and dramatic, just to figure out how to do it

Again, thank you very much!


You know dont be disappointed if someone says the 'style', they like me, have an idea in mind, and are looking for the closest realization to that idea. If you were hiring someone you would do the same.

Bit of a problem, frustration, I know it can be a real pain, but some comments will make you better, so remember that too, and stay focused on those comments.

If you can feel that you can do more than one style, and do it well, show that in your portfolio. Hell post them in this thread, I for one will be as honest as i can.

Remember too that first companies look to weed things out, if they get a lot of replies. When you post on here, we aim to make you better overall. It really is two different things.

As for how... here is the 10 second search, you can take more time

http://www.toledoblade.com/HighScho...ortsCenter.html

Looking forward to seeing more.
 
Old 02-07-2013, 04:53 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cojam
You know dont be disappointed if someone says the 'style', they like me, have an idea in mind, and are looking for the closest realization to that idea. If you were hiring someone you would do the same.

Bit of a problem, frustration, I know it can be a real pain, but some comments will make you better, so remember that too, and stay focused on those comments.

If you can feel that you can do more than one style, and do it well, show that in your portfolio. Hell post them in this thread, I for one will be as honest as i can.

Remember too that first companies look to weed things out, if they get a lot of replies. When you post on here, we aim to make you better overall. It really is two different things.

As for how... here is the 10 second search, you can take more time

http://www.toledoblade.com/HighScho...ortsCenter.html

Looking forward to seeing more.


You are right, completely, there is no way to draw monsters and be hired as car designer, but it still happens. For me, sincerely, it doesn't matter if the right style is there, if i can see that he CAN do it. Obviously i am wrong about that, and it is my mistake of viewing things, which probably have some part in this outburst of frustration.

But, i am still keeping head's up, and listen for everyone who is willing to talk. Problem, major one, is that not much people talks or want to share tips. I may look harsh and a bit bitchy atm, but, i am not like that. I am just very passionate and hard worker, and very emotional.

I have no problem with criticism, i want to hear it, it is getting us better artist, and overall people. I know i am not the best, but, i also know i am not the worst.

For this image, i am not really sure i wanted for her to throw the dragon ball ( so called ) but more like :" Are you really sure that you want it?" And i will add more expression to her face. I still cannot figure out exactly what i need to do to make her more weight balanced. I may see the problem, that her left leg is a bit too much to the right, not in the middle.

That is the problem with self taught artists, it is very har dto correct mistakes, sometimes, without guidance from objective person. And thank you for that. I never considered myself as top artist, but, i have a wish and will to be one. Problem is that in past, there was no chance for me to start drawing and practicing until year and a half ago, so, i am now working an 10-12 hours a day so i can cover all lost years.

And i really hope someday i will "break" the problems i have and do it right, for once
 
Old 02-07-2013, 05:35 PM   #6
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I'll share the best tip... practice. For every 10/20/50 you do, 1 will be

As for her throwing it, it was a suggestion, not a requirement

And if you've missed a few years, dont worry about it, you catch up.

Still looking forward to seeing the update.
 
Old 02-08-2013, 07:47 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cojam
I'll share the best tip... practice. For every 10/20/50 you do, 1 will be

As for her throwing it, it was a suggestion, not a requirement

And if you've missed a few years, dont worry about it, you catch up.

Still looking forward to seeing the update.


Thanks for that tip, that is my fundamental, which i am following every single day

I do not know if i will catch up, but, i will try my best!

Here is the update, i have changed the legs/belly positions a bit, i changed the face, added a small bits of chainmail and remove some other parts of armor. I also removed the spell since i wanted for now to focus on her.

I really hope this looks better

 
Old 02-09-2013, 05:07 AM   #8
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I looked at your website, and got an overview of your entire body of works, so I'm going to comment on the state of your current artistic growth/development in general in the context of seeking a job as a concept artist.

The reason why you are getting rejected is very simple--your foundations are not strong enough as a visual artist. Your understanding of anatomy/figure is particularly weak and is the thing that sticks out the most. You have some rendering skills for surface polish, but the underlying structures are often weak. Your design sense is also not strong enough yet--a lot of watered down and dated/derivative designs that might have passed the mustard in the 1980's or 1990's, but not today. The quality of your finish and presentation is also very inconsistent, with some pieces looking fairly polished, while others just haphazard and rushed (and this has nothing to do with the expressiveness of being painterly or the economy of speedpainting--it's simply the discrepancy between the expectation you set up in your image and the failure to fulfill it accordingly).

Yes, you do show promise, and yes, if you keep at it, you'll get there. These are my recommendations:

1) Starting getting deadly serious about strengthening your foundations as a visual artist. Study and practice hard the classical foundations such as composition, perspective, values/lighting, form/volume, colors, anatomy/figure, etc. It doesn't matter what style you work in--they all are rooted in the real world, and you must first master how the real world looks and works before you can exaggerate, idealize, and simplify a stylized version with any sense of artistic authority.

Do tons of anatomy/figure/portrait studies. Work from life when you can't, and use proper photo references when you can't.

Do lot of still life and landscape and cityscape/street studies. Again, work from life if possible, and use photos when not possible.

Do master copies of artists who are legendary. Observe, analyze, and replicate their sensibility in how to portray form and volume effectively, their color choices, their compositional devices, their approach to simplifying value transitions, their brushwork, their manner of selective detailing, their edge management and how that relates to the compositional design of the whole, etc. Study guys like John Singer Sargent, Anders Zorn, Joaquin Sorolla, Craig Mullins, Richard Schmid, Syd Mead, Gil Elvgren, Daniel Gerhartz, Pino, Jeremy Lipking, etc.

2) Study the subjects you depict/design thoroughly through research. All subjects you design as a concept artist have history, philosophy, psychology, and technical knowledge behind them. for example, a combat rifle has very specific design features that satisfy exact purposes that you must be aware of, and it has gone through design trends that changed according to technological advances and the evolution of combat strategies. Same with any architecture or interior space you design--it has to have logical structural layout and features that matches the purpose of the building (the needs of a hospital is very different from a restaurant, for example). Clothing, hairstyle, uniform, armor, weapons, vehicles, creatures, environments, etc all should follow the same mindset. Learn about the subject you're designing before attempting to design it, or else your designs will appear shallow and ignorant.

Avoid flash over substance, or illogical eye-candy over common sense. Also, avoid mindless sexualization that serves no purpose in a concept design. Pop culture/entertainment is a bit more sophisticated now--people working behind the scenes are trying to overcome the perception that they're just a bunch of immature and crass opportunists catering to hormonal boys. While there are still some who are stuck in that perpetual 13-yr old boy level of maturity, you'll find the leading creative forces are generally more mature than that, and the really crass stuff is being pushed further into the fringe (not considering Japanese stuff).

3) Separate illustration from concept art--they serve different purposes. If you want to be a concept artist, then focus on that, where DESIGN is the main purpose, and your ability to draw and paint is only there so you can present your design clearly. Concept artists are not illustrators who also make shit up--they are designers first and foremost, and artists second. Some artists can go back and forth between the two, and if you want to do that, you need to first make sure your foundations are strong, because whether you work as an illustrator or concept artist, a weak foundation is the first thing people will notice in your work, and they won't bother looking beyond that critical weakness.

Last edited by Lunatique : 02-09-2013 at 05:11 AM.
 
Old 02-15-2013, 07:20 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lunatique
I looked at your website, and got an overview of your entire body of works, so I'm going to comment on the state of your current artistic growth/development in general in the context of seeking a job as a concept artist.

The reason why you are getting rejected is very simple--your foundations are not strong enough as a visual artist. Your understanding of anatomy/figure is particularly weak and is the thing that sticks out the most. You have some rendering skills for surface polish, but the underlying structures are often weak. Your design sense is also not strong enough yet--a lot of watered down and dated/derivative designs that might have passed the mustard in the 1980's or 1990's, but not today. The quality of your finish and presentation is also very inconsistent, with some pieces looking fairly polished, while others just haphazard and rushed (and this has nothing to do with the expressiveness of being painterly or the economy of speedpainting--it's simply the discrepancy between the expectation you set up in your image and the failure to fulfill it accordingly).

Yes, you do show promise, and yes, if you keep at it, you'll get there. These are my recommendations:

1) Starting getting deadly serious about strengthening your foundations as a visual artist. Study and practice hard the classical foundations such as composition, perspective, values/lighting, form/volume, colors, anatomy/figure, etc. It doesn't matter what style you work in--they all are rooted in the real world, and you must first master how the real world looks and works before you can exaggerate, idealize, and simplify a stylized version with any sense of artistic authority.

Do tons of anatomy/figure/portrait studies. Work from life when you can't, and use proper photo references when you can't.

Do lot of still life and landscape and cityscape/street studies. Again, work from life if possible, and use photos when not possible.

Do master copies of artists who are legendary. Observe, analyze, and replicate their sensibility in how to portray form and volume effectively, their color choices, their compositional devices, their approach to simplifying value transitions, their brushwork, their manner of selective detailing, their edge management and how that relates to the compositional design of the whole, etc. Study guys like John Singer Sargent, Anders Zorn, Joaquin Sorolla, Craig Mullins, Richard Schmid, Syd Mead, Gil Elvgren, Daniel Gerhartz, Pino, Jeremy Lipking, etc.

2) Study the subjects you depict/design thoroughly through research. All subjects you design as a concept artist have history, philosophy, psychology, and technical knowledge behind them. for example, a combat rifle has very specific design features that satisfy exact purposes that you must be aware of, and it has gone through design trends that changed according to technological advances and the evolution of combat strategies. Same with any architecture or interior space you design--it has to have logical structural layout and features that matches the purpose of the building (the needs of a hospital is very different from a restaurant, for example). Clothing, hairstyle, uniform, armor, weapons, vehicles, creatures, environments, etc all should follow the same mindset. Learn about the subject you're designing before attempting to design it, or else your designs will appear shallow and ignorant.

Avoid flash over substance, or illogical eye-candy over common sense. Also, avoid mindless sexualization that serves no purpose in a concept design. Pop culture/entertainment is a bit more sophisticated now--people working behind the scenes are trying to overcome the perception that they're just a bunch of immature and crass opportunists catering to hormonal boys. While there are still some who are stuck in that perpetual 13-yr old boy level of maturity, you'll find the leading creative forces are generally more mature than that, and the really crass stuff is being pushed further into the fringe (not considering Japanese stuff).

3) Separate illustration from concept art--they serve different purposes. If you want to be a concept artist, then focus on that, where DESIGN is the main purpose, and your ability to draw and paint is only there so you can present your design clearly. Concept artists are not illustrators who also make shit up--they are designers first and foremost, and artists second. Some artists can go back and forth between the two, and if you want to do that, you need to first make sure your foundations are strong, because whether you work as an illustrator or concept artist, a weak foundation is the first thing people will notice in your work, and they won't bother looking beyond that critical weakness.


Thank you very much for the insight. I know i have weak foundation, and thank you for some new info i gained from your post, which parts should i follow.

But, it is not that simple as self taught artist from third world country, where one book of what you mentioned is half of my salary, so i can forget about those. So, i mostly learn from free tutorials, and very rare critiques, and my mistakes. I can follow what i can find on web, cwertainly, and i am doing that. But, some major stuff you can mostly learn by pointing out by someone who knows what he is doing. And moslty, that staff is going on in schools, at which i can only dream to attend.

So, working two jobs and trying to make a break is very tough, all of my spare time is concentrated on practice, but as i say, even if i am doing something wrong, sometimes you just cannot by myself to figure out the errors. Of course, most people just say: practice. If that was in schools, no body would attend, right? So, it is not just in practice. I am trying to learn as much as i can, but it is hard. Especially when there is so little spare time to completely focus on it.

But, i will keep doing what i can, and learn more, work hard, and maybe, sometime next decade, i will be "there". At least, if not talent, i have passion, so, i hope for the best

Thank you very much, again!
 
Old 02-15-2013, 07:46 PM   #10
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I didn't read all the comments. So if someone already pointed this out ..sorry. I think it needs to have more of a dramatic look it like so. http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthr...?f=137&t=980296

I think it would add some interest to it.
 
Old 02-15-2013, 08:05 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CKABEH
But, i will keep doing what i can, and learn more, work hard, and maybe, sometime next decade, i will be "there". At least, if not talent, i have passion, so, i hope for the best


There are many accomplished artists who are self-taught, so don't ever let that be a deterrent. Becoming a better artist is as much science as it is art, and it's the science that so many aspiring artists don't think about enough. You have to systematically target your weaknesses and work on them as if they are scientific problems to be solved. You have to be smart in how you learn and practice, instead of just blindly working hard without an effective strategy.

I have written a lot of very helpful posts on how to become a better artist in the most efficient way possible. You can read them in the sticky threads in the Art Techniques and Theories forum (linked below in my signature).

BTW, I'm self-taught, and I was a starving artist for many years that couldn't even afford rent and food. I learned my lessons the hard way, and the lessons are etched in my soul because I fought for them tooth and nail. The closest thing I had to any kind of education was being lucky to have been in the Sijun forums during the years when Craig Mullins was active and selflessly helped members learn and grow with insightful critiques and advice. He was my art school. And that's what I'm doing now--to give back to the community in the same way.
 
Old 02-15-2013, 08:26 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lunatique
There are many accomplished artists who are self-taught, so don't ever let that be a deterrent. Becoming a better artist is as much science as it is art, and it's the science that so many aspiring artists don't think about enough. You have to systematically target your weaknesses and work on them as if they are scientific problems to be solved. You have to be smart in how you learn and practice, instead of just blindly working hard without an effective strategy.

I have written a lot of very helpful posts on how to become a better artist in the most efficient way possible. You can read them in the sticky threads in the Art Techniques and Theories forum (linked below in my signature).

BTW, I'm self-taught, and I was a starving artist for many years that couldn't even afford rent and food. I learned my lessons the hard way, and the lessons are etched in my soul because I fought for them tooth and nail. The closest thing I had to any kind of education was being lucky to have been in the Sijun forums during the years when Craig Mullins was active and selflessly helped members learn and grow with insightful critiques and advice. He was my art school. And that's what I'm doing now--to give back to the community in the same way.


Well, i am probably like you, head through a wall until i learn it. Same as you, i learned my stuff so far the hard way... So far, i wasn't that lucky to find someone who could advise me and correct me, so, no wonder i am working the "hard way around". I am trying to reverse-engineer artists that i love, that is one of my tryouts...

After your first response i was trying to find good book/anything to help me with anatomy, for start, i obviously need to learn that. So far, it is going good, but still a lot of stuff there. I am sure i can make it up for all those lost years, trying to survive this damn situation. As you mentioned, i am already around 20 years in same situation. Bread and bills. So, i was a bit "furious" because i am sure i have what it takes to be a good concept artist, AND illustrator, and in last year and a half, when i finally got some financial stability ( with two jobs that i am trying, successfully, to maintain ), i am working every day and every hour of free time.

Example: this is my history - Meme

And other stuff that you see after this link is what i did after. Some staff on my DA account is not yet updated on my website. Improvement Meme is from the start of my drawing, and at the middle of it, is the serious, may i say, dead serious practice, from June of 2011.

It is a bit more than year and a half, and i have grown, but, still stuck with some fundamentals, as you already told me, and which i intend to fix. Also, thank you for links from your sig, i will study those too, hope it will help!

Thanks for everything, and sorry if i am sounding a bit impulsive.
 
Old 02-15-2013, 08:28 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rownd
I didn't read all the comments. So if someone already pointed this out ..sorry. I think it needs to have more of a dramatic look it like so. http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthr...?f=137&t=980296

I think it would add some interest to it.


Thanks, Warren is one of my fav's and i can just dream that i will ever come near him lol

Thank you for the link, you are right, it should be bit more dynamic, and with better perspective.
 
Old 02-15-2013, 08:28 PM   #14
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