Strange shading using bevel

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  10 October 2003
Strange shading using bevel

Try this, open a new file, create a cube 3x3x3, make it editable, add a bevel and suddenly you have a strange shade on your cube.

Playing with the phong tag doesn't help any.
I've seen this kind of shading with some other tools too when I was experimenting with the smoothing of edges.

What's causing this?

Thanks (C4D 8.207)

 
  10 October 2003
lol dude just click on the edges and use phong break. that or you can always just set the phong tag to 0 or replace it.

lol sorry I should have read your whole post.

does subdivision work?
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Last edited by JIII : 10 October 2003 at 02:10 AM.
 
  10 October 2003
Ok, next time read better before you start making fun of me ok, because I'm totally the wrong person for that kind of crap, ok?

No hard feelings though

No, sub-division doesn't work.

I don't understand this. I've asked this question a lot of people... why I get this shading and nobody knows an answer, not even people who work with Cinema 4D for years.

I've experimented with smoothing of edges a lot the last few weeks, wanted to know everything about it and I've seen this kind of weird shading with some other tools too and nobody else noticed this before... really strange!
 
  10 October 2003
wire please
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  10 October 2003
Don't know what you're doing there exactly, but it *is* the phong shading causing the problem. Can you post the scene file somewhere. If not PM me and I'll give you my e-mail.
 
  10 October 2003
Like AdamT said, the problem is with the phong shading. if you break the phong shading at the newly created bevel, not the edges that look bad, the problem is taken care of, but you do lose the phong the is on the bevel.

Also, the default lighting isn't helping too much. I put in a quick fake gi light dome, and the problem is gone.

HTH
 
  10 October 2003
Quote: Originally posted by FredSpeaks
I put in a quick fake gi light dome, and the problem is gone.

No, no, that's the wrong conclusion. GI gives you the impression that it's gone, but it isn't.


Honest, I tried everything you all said, but that didn't work, but I think I found the cause of my problem.

What I'm trying to do is creating a bevel that is smooth using the phong tag.

JIII, I thought that you meant sub-division of the cube, because if you meant sub-division of the bevel... that somehow works.
I have to use the bevel at least 3 times before all these shades almost disappear, I say... 'almost'
It's an improvement, but still not perfect.

Try this for example guys; take a standard cube, 3x3x3 and add a fillet with radius 5 and subdivision 1.

Now look at the cube. Looks like my image that I posted earlier or not?

Now change the value for radius, until these shades on the cube disappear.

Do you notice that this happens around 5 subdivisions?

Do you guys now understand what my problem was?
Yes, my bevels were not sub-divided enough. Of course I can throw a cube in a hypernurbs object, but there are occasions that there is no need for this. The point is, I want to be able to smooth or weight an edge in every circumstance, either if the object is inside a hypernurb or not.

The thing is, smoothing in Cinema 4D can be confusing sometimes and that's why I started to experiment with bevels, inner extrudes, sub-division, weighting, phong, hypernurbs, etc
All these can play an important role in how edges are smoothened.

I never got the the impression that many users were aware of it, that it can be rather complicated, since I've never read any article that talked in depth about this subject. I always assumed that most people didn't have to deal with a lot of smoothing, because they were more focused on organic modeling and animation.

The only guy who noticed that it does need some attention is a german guy, called Jurgen Meier; http://www.3d-meier.de/tut7/Hyper0.html

I was experminting with bevels on edges, because bevels on polygons doesn't work; the cube for example will grow bigger (just test it).


Smoothing of edges is a very important part of non-organic modeling. Many objects that you see around you have large combinations of smooth and sharp edges and corners. I like to work in detail and I'm a perfectionist and that's why I think this subject is so important.

Just try to model a complete car engine and you will notice that how much time you spend on smoothing corners and edges!
Or.... read Arndt's book to see how complicated it can be.

Thanks for your help

Last edited by gfx@rt : 10 October 2003 at 07:05 AM.
 
  10 October 2003
sorry, this is simply due to the phong smoothing angle. i can even post a scene file demonstrating this if you still refuse to believe any of us on this.

remember phong shading is just a blending system between the verteces accross the polygons, the beveled edge is lighter than the surrounding polys because of it's lighting, so therefore the phong shading is lightened along that edge and into the surrounding polygons. because of the sizes of those polygons and the angle difference this blending is more prominent on the surrounding polys.

as for bevel of polygons, this is in fact the way polygon bevel works in most 3d apps, it's been this way for a long time, this is beacuse it's bevel out, beveling the selection, not the model, it's basically just an extended extrude with an inward parameter.
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  10 October 2003
Quote: Originally posted by mdme_sadie
[B]sorry, this is simply due to the phong smoothing angle. [B]

Did I deny that?

The point is that I wanted a smooth bevel without that ugly shading. People said "well it has to do with the phong shading" or "turn it off". That's not what I was asking for. I got the same answer in a different board; turn it of or make the angle 0.
Yeah right and gone is the smooth bevel.

Nobody came up with the idea to advice me to use the "Inner-offset' parameter of the bevel tool, so until I discovered it myself, all these talks about our friend 'Phong' didn't help me anything.
No problem, some people just didn't know like me how to get rid of this shading effect, but they refused to admit it.

Some might want to read this (or look at the images if they can't read German): http://www.c4d-treff.de/tutorials/f...bala/kanten.htm

and discover that version 8 can also bevel edges. You might want to try inner offset values 3, then 2 and then 1 (press 'Enter' in between to see how the shading goes away.
 
  10 October 2003
Inner offset doesn't cure the problem. The phong effect simply diminishes as a function of the repeated bevel operation.

You seem to have a way of offinding those who are trying to lend a hand. Not the best strategy looking to the future.
 
  10 October 2003
Quote: Originally posted by AdamT
Inner offset doesn't cure the problem. The phong effect simply diminishes as a function of the repeated bevel operation.

You seem to have a way of offinding those who are trying to lend a hand. Not the best strategy looking to the future.


Did I say that it solves the problem? Of course phong diminishes it, that's the function of the phong tag, didn't you know that?!

I have a shading and that shading goes away (visually) by using these bevels and that's all what counts here.

If I can make a great 3D model and nobody who looks at my images can see these shading, then I've reached my goal.

The point is that I wanted to get rid of these ugly shadings that were stretched over a full polygon.

And if you ever ask me why I'm getting frustrated, then you have to ask yourself how it feels as a newcomer to ask a question and the first word in the reply is: LOL

That means 'Lauging out loud'.
You might think (like the moderator that I paged) that this guy was just joking, because you know him.
I on the other hand don't know this guy at all, so I consider that a very offensive remark, it's like yelling "newbie!".
I mean, if I walk down the street and stop in front of someone and start laughing out loud, how great is the risk that he starts a fight, something that wouldn't happen if the person involded was a good friend or family member. Now that's the same issue with the post of this guy. I don't now him and I'm therefore highly offended by his remark!

I can't understand why this is so difficult to understand! :annoyed:

I'm getting frustrated with a lot of things on this board. Someone made fun of someone who was new when he asked how to make a bullet. Someone else posted that he wanted to buy Cinema 4D and he was told to stop whining. Today I'm told that I shouldn't expect to have everything on a platter, when all I was asking was; "Why are there more German books". Then you're all fighting out stupid flame wars instead of trying to help the community with more useful things.

I think that the mentality of some of you really stinks!!
Most of you are acting like a bunch of frustrated highschool kids.
Instead of having an intelligent discussion about bevels, shading and smoothing, you're all whining about phong tags without discussion a SOLUTION! Read that? S O L U T I O N to get a smooth bevel!
I on the other hand have told in great detail in several posts what I was doing, what my problem was, my goals and how I think about the importance of smoothing.


I'm going to register under a new name and from now on I will only "take" from this forum WITHOUT doing something in return.

I'm really fed up with some of you guys!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Last edited by gfx@rt : 10 October 2003 at 03:53 PM.
 
  10 October 2003
Do as you please, but I really don't get your frustration. You seem a bit hypersensitive.
 
  10 October 2003
gfx@rt, you have no idea whats going on man, your acting like a jerk and wondering why no one helping. The actual problem mentioned is the shadeing problem they offered the answeer as to how to solve considering how you modled it, you never asked how to better model the shape, yousimply asked what was wrong with the shading on the model, which was the phong. However anyone that helps you complain about.

This thread is closed.
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