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Old 01-25-2013, 10:59 PM   #76
LukeLetellier
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Luke Letellier
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If you've already been working for ten years and have a small group of established clients who you work with from time to time, this doesn't seem to be a hard decision.

But as one who is just out of school & trying to get into freelancing fulltime, getting just above minimum wage for doing this kind of work is a heck of a lot better than the alternative - getting minimum wage at Best Buy or McDonalds.

An $18K job that'd take six months work sounds almost like a DREAM, when the real life alternative is defending to several possible clients why your $11 an hour fee that includes voice over, stock music, stock photos, computer equipment costs, and software fees is a STEAL ("Because isn't that a little steep for this sort of work? It's only 30 seconds!")

The difficulty arrises from the fact that most of the competition on these freelancing sites comes from low-income countries where individuals can very successfully live off of a small fraction of American minimum wage.

When you see a job posting that barely squeaks by as worthy of a bid, you get caught up with 35 other desperate people all trying to underbid each other just so they can get ramen noodles for dinner - you can forget about "padding your fees" to pay for those trivial things like legitimate software licenses or hardware upgrades - which can be risks in and of themselves (FCP7 & Naiad anyone?)

When you finally land one of those jobs that pays relatively decent, you almost feel guilty for getting paid alright.

But what's the alternative? Quit?

Maybe work part-time - in which case, you'll struggle to stay on top of everything. If you're just starting out, it really needs a more-than-full-time commitment, which hinders things like friends, family, and just a general "Hey lets go talk with those things I've heard about called human beings."

Right now I'm incredibly thankful to have a three week job creating a product that'll be headlining my next reel - even if it pays minimum wage. It's work.
 
Old 01-28-2013, 10:33 AM   #77
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haha , Glad you did not got sucked into that deal.. But if you think that is bad, listen to this...

After 8 years of factory management, and playing with Maya for even more years at home as a hobby after work hours, I figured I wanted to be a 3D artist, So I quit my job found a job as a 3D generalist for SciFi channel, meanwhile I started meeting people ad got my first ever freelance job, Music video roughly 2.5 min. 32 Shots, including 32 green screens, building of a Cg-Matte BG, Smoke Dust, Blood simulations, One creature rigging and animating ( Snake ) ( Already Modelled and Textured ). It was like 24 fps then a lot of time warps to 300 fps 30 days for completion. I dunno how the other guys agreed ( We were 4 in total 3 Nuke artists and me as a Maya Artist) to this ripoff but I did because it was my first freelance and had no idea of pricing in East Europe ( Bulgaria) .. Behold we did it for ..... 6.000.00 USD 1500 USD each.... After we agreed we also ended up doing retiming of the raw red files to match the refference editing. OMG what a rip off that was...

I dont know why but I used to suck at pricing my hours, I am a lot better now.

This job we do guys, is a specialist work. Don`t undervalue your talents.
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Old 01-28-2013, 04:44 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LukeLetellier
The difficulty arrises from the fact that most of the competition on these freelancing sites comes from low-income countries where individuals can very successfully live off of a small fraction of American minimum wage.

When you see a job posting that barely squeaks by as worthy of a bid, you get caught up with 35 other desperate people all trying to underbid each other just so they can get ramen noodles for dinner - you can forget about "padding your fees" to pay for those trivial things like legitimate software licenses or hardware upgrades - which can be risks in and of themselves (FCP7 & Naiad anyone?)


You have a really good point. That's one of the reasons I moved out of L.A. to begin with. Years ago, when I was living in the Philippines, I did a couple of commercials for someone, animation, voiceover, music, the works, for something like $1000. They probably would have paid 30X that at any small shop in L.A. That $1000 wouldn't even cover my rent in L.A., but I could live the high life where I was. More importantly, I could relax. I didn't have to rush to find my next gig and I had a lot of time to work on my own stuff.

I wouldn't do that today, but like you said, I would still rather make minimum wage, or even less, doing what I love than make it flipping burgers.
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Old 01-31-2013, 02:24 AM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teruchan
You have a really good point. That's one of the reasons I moved out of L.A. to begin with. Years ago, when I was living in the Philippines, I did a couple of commercials for someone, animation, voiceover, music, the works, for something like $1000. They probably would have paid 30X that at any small shop in L.A. That $1000 wouldn't even cover my rent in L.A., but I could live the high life where I was. More importantly, I could relax. I didn't have to rush to find my next gig and I had a lot of time to work on my own stuff.

I wouldn't do that today, but like you said, I would still rather make minimum wage, or even less, doing what I love than make it flipping burgers.


That makes me think of my first 3D gig. It was instructional animations on gas pumps. I was right out of high school and one of my teachers owned 5 stations in town. I did it for free gas for the summer.Back then it was .98 cents a gallon. Halfway through the summer the Texaco affiliate made him stop using the animations and switch to theirs. So he canceled my gas card and didn't tell me. I really felt ripped off. All total I got just over 200 bucks in gas. Totally not worth it. But I think that these lessons are valuable and everyone needs to go through 1 of these for the life experience and so they know how it feels to be totally burned.

Sadly most of us go through 5 or 6, sometimes more. All I can say is Contracts, Contracts, Contracts!

Last edited by azamux : 01-31-2013 at 02:28 AM.
 
Old 02-02-2013, 11:24 AM   #80
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Who were the people who posted that "job" posting for an animated pilot on "fox network of Family Guy, American Dad, and Bob's Burgers"? They need to be shamed or something.

I mean, it's no secret that Hollywood attracts and is full of sociopaths who can lie and talk a lot without saying anything but come on, all that blathering about 'loyalty', there's just got to be consequences for that kind of a 'job' posting.

Also, is it even legally possible for people to guarantee you work in case a show gets picked up?

"NOTE: There is NO PAY UP FRONT. Let us repeat there is NO PAY UP FRONT!"

Ha, I really wish these jerk offs had the courtesy of posting this 'UP FRONT!' so that serious job seekers wouldn't waste another millisecond reading their crap.

Last edited by badsearcher : 02-02-2013 at 11:27 AM.
 
Old 02-11-2013, 05:38 AM   #81
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If I'm ever approached by someone similar, one thing I think I'm going to do is tell client to watch the credits on film that is similar to their project. Have them count the names involved in the VFX department and then multiply that by the man hours per day and cost. And see if that helps ground them in reality a little better.
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Old 12-26-2013, 12:34 AM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grundelboy
If I'm ever approached by someone similar, one thing I think I'm going to do is tell client to watch the credits on film that is similar to their project. Have them count the names involved in the VFX department and then multiply that by the man hours per day and cost. And see if that helps ground them in reality a little better.


Good idea. Most small indie film people don't have a clue. Hopefully this can give them a wake up call.

Last edited by azozel : 12-26-2013 at 12:45 AM.
 
Old 12-26-2013, 12:34 AM   #83
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