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Old 02-22-2013, 07:36 AM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DuttyFoot
Did they mention bluray?
They didn't mention it during the presentation but the press release that they put out after says that it will include it.

http://www.joystiq.com/2013/02/20/s...hardware-specs/
 
Old 02-22-2013, 08:31 AM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nakimushi
Deep Down was a highlight of the show for me ...
Lets just hope it was running in real-time



It does run in real time.
 
Old 02-22-2013, 09:05 AM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CGIPadawan
What is he talking about? Even if the PS4 were the equivalent of an entire Hollywood pipeline, doesn't he realize how much hard work goes into getting the eyes of characters to "work" in films like AVATAR? It doesn't make it easier! It just means you have the means now to spend hours upon hours of your life just getting that glint in the eyes to work and the right amount of eye movement to stick.

It's not like what it was in the N64 days when you pasted a photo-projection texture map of the face (including the eyes!) and just called it done.... It's a totally different disparity to working.

Unless he means the PS4 now comes with a built-in game engine that has pre-sets and you can make all your characters like Create-A-Wrestlers... then I don't know how the PS4 is going to allow you to "make games without a care in the world" as David implies.

Well, before you jump further on David Cage's case, you have to realize that programming for the PS3's Cell hardware architecture is way more difficult than programming for the Xbox 360's Xenos architecture, even though both processors are derived from the PowerPC architecture. Both consoles require some jumping through hoops, except that the PS3 hoops are lit on fire and you have to jump with a rubber chicken between your jaws while crossing your fingers..

The reality may be not as drastic as that, but I've heard nightmare stories from game devs about how they have to deal with the PS3 (lack of) memory management, constantly fetching and sending graphics data "as needed" instead of caching graphics data in memory like the 360 does, or how they have to deal with loading data from a blu-ray drive that reads 2x slower than the 360's dvd drive. Cell doesn't support branching instructions that well either, so that puts a damper on how sophisticated you can make the AI behave.

With the PS4 now on the x86 architecture, game devs will be able to devote more time into developing the game (and less time worrying about porting across different platforms) instead of allocating extra time trying to figure out ingenious tricks or voodoo spells to get around the stumbling blocks of making the game look the same on the PS3 as it does on the 360.
 
Old 02-22-2013, 11:14 AM   #49
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I do feel bit pessimistic about this new console generation. Sure who doesn't enjoy better graphics but the cost of competing on the new AAA level will probably mean that only games that are viewed as a "sure bet" will be made and less risks will be taken and we'll be seeing alot more of super linear CoD like games etc.

So I will put my hopes on indie gamers :P because all the big players will be too worried about going bankrupt with their next move to put forward any adventurous gameplay designs.
 
Old 02-22-2013, 12:13 PM   #50
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Once again, I am working from local sites, so I can't be sure I saw the same video as everyone else, but the video I saw wad about two hours and hand huge screens that wrapped around the audience. They showed off the old man head, and I saw the demo of, I believe, Deep Down, where the warrior fights a dragon.

I can totally understand why folks would think this stuff is not possible in engine. I stand corrected in my assessment that games would not soon reach the level I had always hoped to see. Some things in there looked like they were simply from a live action movie. Were it not for the weird quirks we are used in in games, like mocap jerkiness or weird corners on people's lips, it would look real. Granted I am watching a fairly low quality video. Maybe if you see the same footage up close in HD you can pick apart more.

The most impressive thing to me, though, was the lighting. Seeing someone walk through bright and dark areas with the proper effect as it would appear on film was something I had always been waiting for. I know Cryengine has lighting like that but since I have only seen it used on FPS, it is different to actually see the character move through stuff.

I am excited now. Can't imagine I will buy one, but you never know!
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Old 02-22-2013, 12:26 PM   #51
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Some of this stuff really pisses me off. In these demos I am seeing stuff I was trying to get in games ten years ago and the company was always fighting me on it. For example, when you run, you have to accelerate into it, not go from a stand still to a full on run in one frame. When you change directions, you can't just cut 90 degrees like Automan, but have to slow down, change your weight etc. When you attack you have to rare back your sword arm first. They always said players won't go for this. Now I am seeing this stuff as standard in most of these demos!

Now I remember why I got out of games...
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Old 02-22-2013, 06:07 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teruchan
For example, when you run, you have to accelerate into it, not go from a stand still to a full on run in one frame. When you change directions, you can't just cut 90 degrees like Automan, but have to slow down, change your weight etc. When you attack you have to rare back your sword arm first

Apologies for this flashpost, but I just want to say that I wholeheartedly agree with you.
 
Old 02-22-2013, 06:14 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ayame
I do feel bit pessimistic about this new console generation. Sure who doesn't enjoy better graphics but the cost of competing on the new AAA level will probably mean that only games that are viewed as a "sure bet" will be made and less risks will be taken and we'll be seeing alot more of super linear CoD like games etc.

So I will put my hopes on indie gamers :P because all the big players will be too worried about going bankrupt with their next move to put forward any adventurous gameplay designs.


Well Indie games are more accessible and common than ever before, so you'll have plenty to play.

But big budget games don't necessarily mean bad games. Far Cry 3 was a huge undertaking, and I've only heard good things about it.

Sure, most AAA games will only try out one or two innovative gameplay elements each time, if even that, but really all I want from a game is for it to be fun. I've played plenty of "innovative" games that were a bore... or innovative to anyone who hasn't played a platformer from the 90's.
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Old 02-23-2013, 12:10 AM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teruchan
Some of this stuff really pisses me off. In these demos I am seeing stuff I was trying to get in games ten years ago and the company was always fighting me on it. For example, when you run, you have to accelerate into it, not go from a stand still to a full on run in one frame. When you change directions, you can't just cut 90 degrees like Automan, but have to slow down, change your weight etc. When you attack you have to rare back your sword arm first. They always said players won't go for this. Now I am seeing this stuff as standard in most of these demos!

Now I remember why I got out of games...


Sorry you feel that way. A game's realism is a product of the modeling, texturing, lighting, level design and animation. Ten years ago we barely had enough polygons to make round tires, and very little in the way of complex materials. Motion capture wasn't as ubiquitous as it is now either. It's not that your ideas weren't good, but likely that they were unnecessary for the overall level of realism that could be achieved at the time. Ten years ago it was still common to see objects clip each other frequently, heads bobbing through car roofs, bodies poking through solid doors. That was considered largely acceptable given the relatively low res origami worlds we were being given. But you just can't have that with near-photoreal figures incorporating believable facial capture. At any level of visual fidelity, things are expected to behave as realistically as they appear to look. At the time, it was believed that character animations with "weight" would seem unresponsive and make animation transitions too difficult to implement.
 
Old 02-23-2013, 12:56 AM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pomru
Well, before you jump further on David Cage's case, you have to realize that programming for the PS3's Cell hardware architecture is way more difficult than programming for the Xbox 360's Xenos architecture, even though both processors are derived from the PowerPC architecture. Both consoles require some jumping through hoops, except that the PS3 hoops are lit on fire and you have to jump with a rubber chicken between your jaws while crossing your fingers..

The reality may be not as drastic as that, but I've heard nightmare stories from game devs about how they have to deal with the PS3 (lack of) memory management, constantly fetching and sending graphics data "as needed" instead of caching graphics data in memory like the 360 does, or how they have to deal with loading data from a blu-ray drive that reads 2x slower than the 360's dvd drive. Cell doesn't support branching instructions that well either, so that puts a damper on how sophisticated you can make the AI behave.

With the PS4 now on the x86 architecture, game devs will be able to devote more time into developing the game (and less time worrying about porting across different platforms) instead of allocating extra time trying to figure out ingenious tricks or voodoo spells to get around the stumbling blocks of making the game look the same on the PS3 as it does on the 360.


My only point was David Cage was using superlatives that really don't apply.... and good luck getting all that "Emotion Never Seen Before" in a game when the reality is that just getting a Na'vi to emote properly for a few seconds requires so much effort from multiple systems and people in a non-interactive product.

Just saying I wasn't impressed with Cage's assessment of superlatives.

But I'm not angry... It just sounds a bit like Snake Oil to me...
"Emotion Chip" anyone?
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Old 02-23-2013, 03:54 AM   #56
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Quote:
The reality may be not as drastic as that, but I've heard nightmare stories from game devs about how they have to deal with the PS3 (lack of) memory management, constantly fetching and sending graphics data "as needed" instead of caching graphics data in memory like the 360 does, or how they have to deal with loading data from a blu-ray drive that reads 2x slower than the 360's dvd drive. Cell doesn't support branching instructions that well either, so that puts a damper on how sophisticated you can make the AI behave.

With the PS4 now on the x86 architecture, game devs will be able to devote more time into developing the game (and less time worrying about porting across different platforms) instead of allocating extra time trying to figure out ingenious tricks or voodoo spells to get around the stumbling blocks of making the game look the same on the PS3 as it does on the 360.


I think when the PS3 was being developed Sony hadn't banked on just how important it would be for the system to be not only easy to program for, but easy to port from other platforms and fit into a wider ecosystem. In terms of compute performance the PS3 has a theoretical max of 230 GFolps vs the 360's 77. So something must have clearly gone terribly wrong. One would think that the extra compute performance would be great for AI and so on.

Quote:
But I'm not angry... It just sounds a bit like Snake Oil to me...
"Emotion Chip" anyone?


Aw I will miss the exotic CPU architectures of the past, gave the impression that it would drive forward innovation once humans could figure out how to program them, I mean I was VERY impressed by shadow of colossus, metal gear solid 3 etc on PS2 which had only 32MB of ram and a 300Mhz cpu! Entirely down to innovative use of architecture and not really snake oil imo. The games felt unique due to how custom all the code was, and not like they had just re-skinned unreal with new assets *cough*

Those times are very much in the past now though, general purpose architecture has advanced so much and decreased in cost hugely, past the point of it ever being worth it again.

Last edited by conbom : 02-23-2013 at 04:21 AM.
 
Old 02-25-2013, 01:26 AM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by conbom
Aw I will miss the exotic CPU architectures of the past, gave the impression that it would drive forward innovation once humans could figure out how to program them, I mean I was VERY impressed by shadow of colossus, metal gear solid 3 etc on PS2 which had only 32MB of ram and a 300Mhz cpu! Entirely down to innovative use of architecture and not really snake oil imo. The games felt unique due to how custom all the code was, and not like they had just re-skinned unreal with new assets *cough*

Those times are very much in the past now though, general purpose architecture has advanced so much and decreased in cost hugely, past the point of it ever being worth it again.


Part in bold is exactly my point and why promises/brouhaha that makes it sound like the Playstation Super-Machine will just automatically make awesome experiences for consumers and awesome games for any developer is just nonsense.

Wait for REAL product to come out. Then we'll know.

To wit... when Sony did make something that seemed worthwhile with the PS VITA, but they just put out a second-rate marketing and ad run... and they don't even mention it anymore at events or shows.....

Way to go really.... But I might still get a PS VITA.
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Old 02-25-2013, 03:04 AM   #58
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Deep down looks like the most impressive game I've ever seen when it comes to visuals.
 
Old 02-25-2013, 03:04 AM   #59
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