CGTalk > Main > General Discussion
Login register
Thread Closed share thread « Previous Thread | Next Thread »  
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 02-25-2013, 03:01 AM   #1
MissOptimist
Expert
portfolio
Cora Gorospe
Educator/ 3D Artist
Fort%2BLauderdale,
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 970
Send a message via AIM to MissOptimist Send a message via Yahoo to MissOptimist
Animation Reels with Motion Captures

If a person who wants to be an animator have used only animation data(bip files) in his/her demo reel to animate his/her character, will he/she still be considered a skillful animator?
 
Old 02-25-2013, 03:46 AM   #2
CGIPadawan
Part-Time Blenderite
 
CGIPadawan's Avatar
Giancarlo Ng
Quezon City, Philippines
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 6,950
Send a message via Yahoo to CGIPadawan
A lot of great animators use mocap, references, or motion data files.

More detail for this case required.
__________________
"Your most creative work is pre-production, once the film is in production, demands on time force you to produce rather than create."
My ArtStation
 
Old 02-25-2013, 08:03 AM   #3
kokwey57
Veteran
portfolio
Lau Kok Wey
animator
fire cracker
Ipoh, Malaysia
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 40
is call skill mo-cap actor

Last edited by kokwey57 : 02-25-2013 at 08:06 AM.
 
Old 02-25-2013, 09:51 AM   #4
mr3dguy
Observor
 
mr3dguy's Avatar
portfolio
Adan Hancock
3d Artist
Squishycube
Oakville, Australia
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 262
Send a message via ICQ to mr3dguy Send a message via AIM to mr3dguy Send a message via MSN to mr3dguy Send a message via Yahoo to mr3dguy
It would seem like the answer in most cases would be no.
If I'm looking for someone to purely use bip files, or perhaps capture animation it would be fine. If I'm looking for an animator, then using captured files to save costs is great, but what's going to happen when I need a specific motion that isn't in the library, or can't be captured using mocap.

Unless you are applying to something specific, a lack of keyed animation is not going to do you any favors.
__________________
www.mr3dguy.tk
 
Old 02-25-2013, 12:06 PM   #5
musashidan
Bar Stool Enthusiast
 
musashidan's Avatar
portfolio
Daniel McGrath
Dublin, Ireland
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,850
Would a modeler who only used meshes not created by them be considered a skillful modeler...?
Obviously not.

Using mo-cap exclusively would show absolutely nothing of the person's animation ability, but rather their ability to apply mo-cap files to a rig with several mouse-clicks.
 
Old 02-25-2013, 06:26 PM   #6
Dillster
Always Learning
 
Dillster's Avatar
portfolio
Dylan Saunders
Dublin, Ireland
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 2,903
Quote:
Originally Posted by musashidan
Would a modeler who only used meshes not created by them be considered a skillful modeler...?
Obviously not.

Using mo-cap exclusively would show absolutely nothing of the person's animation ability, but rather their ability to apply mo-cap files to a rig with several mouse-clicks.


I agree. It seems just plain common sense to me.
__________________
I like to learn.
 
Old 02-25-2013, 11:18 PM   #7
fig
designer of stuff...
Chris F
graphic/interactive designer/aspiring animator
Houston, USA
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 967
Send a message via AIM to fig
I know some game animators who include both motion capture and keyframe animation on their reels, but the mocap is annotated that they've added keyframed animation to the performance when those clips are displayed.
__________________
figdigital | @figdigital
 
Old 02-26-2013, 11:26 AM   #8
MissOptimist
Expert
portfolio
Cora Gorospe
Educator/ 3D Artist
Fort%2BLauderdale,
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 970
Send a message via AIM to MissOptimist Send a message via Yahoo to MissOptimist
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr3dguy
what's going to happen when I need a specific motion that isn't in the library, or can't be captured using mocap.

Unless you are applying to something specific, a lack of keyed animation is not going to do you any favors.


interesting, can you give examples of human motions that cannot be captured?
 
Old 02-26-2013, 02:51 PM   #9
Horganovski
Freelance Animator/Rigger
 
Horganovski's Avatar
portfolio
Brian Horgan
Graphite9
Dublin, Ireland
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 4,958
I don't think it's the case that there's a specific movement mocap can't capture (although it tends to struggle with detailed stuff like fingers for example), but what if you don't have access to a mocap studio and need to get something animated that you don't already have capture data for though?

Here's the real issue with mocap though that rarely seems to get mentioned:

A lot of the various systems for 'do it yourself' mocap kits promise a lot in how they will save you time and money of hiring 'expensive' animators, but they ignore a very basic premise -

That is : crap in = crap out.

To elaborate - most of us, even those who know how to animate by hand and practice the art a lot are not skilled actors, or dancers, or martial arts experts, or gymnasts.
So even if we have the best mocap systems in the world we are not going to produce beautiful animation with it. For one thing we won't move with the grace or style that we usually expect from high quality animation. We may make bad choices about several of the important artistic factors that go into good animation, like staging, posing, timing etc.

This is fresh in my mind as I'm currently doing a workshop with iAnimate and while they encourage us to film our own video reference for our shots they make a very important point about using that reference - you don't just rotoscope your video. You study it, you boil it down to the essence and then you push it, stylize it and enhance it. All in the name of making the motion more appealing, interesting and entertaining.

The same thing applies with mocap. If you just take raw mocap and apply it to a character the results are ugly and boring and lack weight and appeal. A skilled mocap cleanup artist (yes it is a skill, pretty tough work too, I've done it) will do a very similar job to the hand-animator working from video reference, ie they will take what the mocap has given them, use it as a basis and from there they refine it, plus it, and massage it into a compelling performance.

This happens on all the major movies, no one in their right mind just takes raw mocap and puts it on screen, no matter what Andy Serkis might tell you. Directors don't want to talk about this as they want Oscars to put on their shelf, not technical awards for the 'nerds' in the backroom. Oscars translate into bigger budgets for their next movie, technical awards don't.

So, don't believe the hype. If you are watching Avatar or any of the major 'mocap' movies, you are watching animation that originated from actors, but every frame of it has been lovingly crafted into the final performance by a living, breathing, and most importantly thinking animator.

Sorry for the long post but you asked for it asking a question like this before I've had my first coffee of the day

Cheers,
Brian
 
Old 02-26-2013, 03:48 PM   #10
Crushbomber
New Member
 
Crushbomber's Avatar
portfolio
Crush
RR-Selects
Stuttgart, Germany
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 22
In this movie they tried mocap and decided to move all by hand or at least hand correct all mocap datas because it "just didnít look right": Making of Warm Bodies
 
Old 02-26-2013, 03:55 PM   #11
circusboy
Expert
Raonull Conover
Montreal, Canada
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,386
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissOptimist
interesting, can you give examples of human motions that cannot be captured?

I agree with Brian. But to answer your question another way.
Any movement that is 'SuperHuman' or 'SuperAnimal' or simply beyond
what you can get a living creature (the source of your motion capture) to do safely or in a way that doesn't look too cheesy.

A example of this was in the LOTR Two Towers. The Elf Legolas does this impossible move where he grabs a live action horse (running at full gallop) and swings around its neck and onto his back. It happens impossibly fast. Beyond what any cowboy could do. I believe he also had to grab the horse with an unusual manor (i want to say related to the actor's broken arm/wrist or some such). Anyway I think circumstance for the shoot meant 'lets try and fix it in post' as the character had to be on horseback for the next shot. Since elves are beyond human it looks mostly kewl. I didn't really pick up on it until they talked about it on the behind the scenes on the DVD. Then it was obvious they had to keyframe that bit for sure.

And by 'cheesy'. If the actor has the fly around like Superman but-well humans can't do that. And if you look at the older bluescreen era Superman films -really what the actor is able to do 'suspended' against bluescreen is pretty cheesy looking already. So is there any point to motion capturing that?! Not really. So you keyframe something that looks more 'fantastic' instead.

Last edited by circusboy : 02-26-2013 at 04:01 PM.
 
Old 02-26-2013, 03:55 PM   #12
CGTalk Moderation
Expert
CGTalk Forum Leader
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 1,066,478
Thread automatically closed

This thread has been automatically closed as it remained inactive for 12 months. If you wish to continue the discussion, please create a new thread in the appropriate forum.
__________________
CGTalk Policy/Legalities
Note that as CGTalk Members, you agree to the terms and conditions of using this website.
 
Thread Closed share thread


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
CGSociety
Society of Digital Artists
www.cgsociety.org

Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2006,
Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Minimize Ads
Forum Jump
Miscellaneous

All times are GMT. The time now is 11:06 AM.


Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.