Displacement and Normal map decrease details if used together

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  3 Weeks Ago
Displacement and Normal map decrease details if used together

I'm currently working on a Model for animating. While working on it in ZBrush, I wanted to check and see how the model will look like in 3ds max. So I exported the displacement and normal maps. Unfortunately, I did get strange results. When I'm using only the normal map I get good details and if I only use the displacement map I get good height and rough details, but if I use them together, the details decrease somehow. I'm new to max 2017, could there be something I have to know? I spent the whole day yesterday to find a solution, but I must oversee something.

I tried the multi map exporter and the single export. I tried with smoothing, without, mid 0.5, mid 0.0, scale 1, scale by "get scale" almost all the settings. 32bit, 16bit, exr, non exr, convert tif in photoshop to RGB exr...I'm out of ideas. I guess I dont see the obvious, so I hope you can help me out. If you want, you cant download and Check the Model and maps:Download Head and Maps

Export and Import settings for the displacement map


Export and Import settings for the normal map


Render with only displacement map


Render with only normal map


Render with displacement AND normal map


Head model lowpoly


UV


I appreciate all help and inputs.
 
  3 Weeks Ago
The only reason that might cause this that I am aware of is that some normal map info is inverted and thus cencels out the displacement but it doesnt look like this when you compare the isolated renders....

but just to be sure you could always check how to correctly export normal maps from zbrush to vray/max and which channels need to be inverted.

Lots of info about it here: link

Also, Im pretty sure if you use a more detailed displacement map in the vraydisplacement vray automatically converts the smaller detals to bumpdetail so you don't really need to add and extra normal map for it, just make your displacement map as detailed as possible.
 
  3 Weeks Ago
Thanks for your inputs. For Max, I need to flip the G, wich i did. I tried both and flipped looks correct. You can see the normal map is fine if I render just the normal map :-/

Could you tell me how to export a more detailed displacement map? Do you mean just bigger? Like 8k maps or is there a option to capture more fine details? That would also work for me, as long as I get more of the fine details.

5 mins ago I found something strange. I started an older machine with max 2014 and vray 3.00.3. It works perfectly fine, If I use the Normal Bump (not VrayNormalMap! Max 2017 doesn't have this Normal Map anymore it seems, since it gives me an Error if I try to import a older file with just Normal Map. Bummer.

Also If I use the VrayColor2bump in max 2017, it gives okeyish results. Better than VrayNormalMap, but still looking for the best option.
 
  3 Weeks Ago
Originally Posted by QMan: Thanks for your inputs. For Max, I need to flip the G, wich i did. I tried both and flipped looks correct. You can see the normal map is fine if I render just the normal map :-/

Could you tell me how to export a more detailed displacement map? Do you mean just bigger? Like 8k maps or is there a option to capture more fine details? That would also work for me, as long as I get more of the fine details.

5 mins ago I found something strange. I started an older machine with max 2014 and vray 3.00.3. It works perfectly fine, If I use the Normal Bump (not VrayNormalMap! Max 2017 doesn't have this Normal Map anymore it seems, since it gives me an Error if I try to import a older file with just Normal Map. Bummer.

Also If I use the VrayColor2bump in max 2017, it gives okeyish results. Better than VrayNormalMap, but still looking for the best option.

Im not familiar with zbrush but when you export the displacemnt map isnt there an option to select the subdiv level or something? Just set it to your maximum used subdiv level which you used to sculpt.

The fact that it works in max 2014 with and oolder vray version does seem to confirm there is something wrong though
Could you share the assets so I can take a quick look or would you rather prefer not to?
I think just sharing the displacement map and normal map should be enough... I'll simply apply them to a sphere or box which should be good enough to check the results (i think).

Color2Bump should be used to convert to greyscale values which are used as a bump map (the same way a displacement map works, but without creating the geometry)...
It's usefull to use this after you have applied color corrections to your bump map since max doesnt always apply those to the actual bump data (dont know the technical details why).
it won't give correct results if you apply it to a normal map.

Last edited by ACiD80 : 3 Weeks Ago at 10:19 PM.
 
  3 Weeks Ago
Hmm, I used the same subidv level to export as I had in the modeling process. Level 6 :-/

In my opening Post is a download link for the Head, normal and displacement :-). I'm more than happy if you would try some settings.
 
  3 Weeks Ago
Ok, sry...

I'll have a quick look

I noticed that your displacement map has black areas/spots in it with missing detail though... which is weird because the normal map suggests there should be data there? is that intentional?
 
  3 Weeks Ago
Seems to be working fine over here...

All default settings except changed min/max in vraydisplacement mod to -1/1 and height to 1.3cm (as in your screenshots)
And adjusted the normal map influence from max's default of 30 to 100 in the material editor. I assume you did this aswel?




Maybe you should try updating to the newest vray.
 
  3 Weeks Ago
Yes I tried the influence from 100 to 250 with the same results.

Maybe I should reinstall max and vray to see if this solves the problems.

Could you attach your scene, so I could testrender it and see if my Max/Vray messes something up?
 
  3 Weeks Ago
Hmm, just for fun I thought I'd try to double the displacement amount since I thought the displacement was looking too flat at 1.3cm. So I tried to set it at 2.6cm out of curiosity and behold I get the same canceling effect as you do. This can make you sense if you think about it.



So this tells me if you set one of the two maps (displacement or normal) too high/low you will get incorrect results.

Maybe someone who has a bit more experience doing this might be able to help you out?
I'd suggest the zbrushcentral.com forums. Plenty of highly experienced users there who do this kind of stuff daily.

Gave me your email, ill send you the file... I dont have any upload space currently.
 
  3 Weeks Ago
Well, if you get the same problem, there is no need to test it. I have my normal settings on 200, so it's to high. I will upgrade as well ask in onzbrushcentral.

Thank you very much for your help. If I find or get an solution, I will post it here.
 
  2 Weeks Ago
Check out the latest update 3.60.04.

Bug fixes:
(*) VRayNormalMap: Incorrect result with displacement

maybe that will fix your issues.
 
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