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Old 03-19-2013, 10:10 PM   #1
Snake Eyess
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Mental ray and composite material - or other ways of doing layers

Hey all

Im in this situation again...

I have a pack that needs 4 different materials on it that I have a setup using a Composite material containing masks and A&D materials and one of them has a colour map.
so..
*base layer - A reflective, glossy (metal) A&D material with no mask (as it is the base layer over the whole pack)
*second layer - is a A&D matte finish material with a colour map on it, and a corresponding mask.
*third layer - Red reflective A&D material - Mask with what needs to be said material
*forth layer - White matte finish material with a mask of a star that goes ontop of the reflective red part (layer3)

I had to do this before and Jeff Patton and Flavio helped me out last time in this thread

Problem is that with a composite material IN THEORY this should work, but mental ray takes UNNECESSARILY long to render.
Can anyone suggest a better way of doing this?

Last edited by Snake Eyess : 03-20-2013 at 09:42 PM.
 
Old 03-20-2013, 07:32 AM   #2
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I've got the same experiences with the composite material when reflective/refractive AD materials are used somewhere in the layers. I supsect that reflections etc. are claclulated between the composite layers. Maybe there's a away to turn off reflection/refraction selectively ? But i'm not to cosy with such advanced MR material features, if they are even exposed ...
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Old 03-20-2013, 08:30 AM   #3
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hmmm, I will look into that.

maybe for the non-reflective parts I could just use a standard material instead of a A&D.

I tried to setup the shader network using Flavio's method (blend material within a blend material within a blend material...etc) but its so complicated, that and the fact that Im not sure whats on top and whats at the bottom in the blends
 
Old 03-20-2013, 09:44 PM   #4
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Render times are insane...
and it would seem that as soon as I add one more layer, then it takes EXTREMELY long to get past the 33% mark

does anyone have a way of doing this better?
 
Old 03-20-2013, 10:52 PM   #5
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Peter Blackearth
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Right now NVidia are running open beta test of a set of shaders developed with layering in mind for situations similar to these (and many others).

You can get quite some info here

And join the beta here

Have in mind that you're gonna need to register on the forum (or use existing registration if you have one) and you must have at least one approved post in the forum to access the development section.

On the other hand, as Master Zap is used to say, the Composite material in max is a mathematical abomination. Arch&Design as it is was never intended for layering and when you do so, the render times are the sum of rendering each of these materials separately... But in case you need to layer anything the old way, stick to Blend materials/maps.

Last edited by moulder6 : 03-20-2013 at 10:59 PM.
 
Old 03-20-2013, 11:22 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moulder6
On the other hand, as Master Zap is used to say, the Composite material in max is a mathematical abomination. Arch&Design as it is was never intended for layering and when you do so, the render times are the sum of rendering each of these materials separately... But in case you need to layer anything the old way, stick to Blend materials/maps.


Then he should really fix the composite material so that it is no longer an abomination

- Neil
 
Old 03-21-2013, 08:08 AM   #7
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BWAHAHA!!! love that comment Neil (made my day)

I would love to stick to layered blends, but im still trying to wrap my head around it.
cant figure how the maps control whats masked and in which order its doing it in.

Looking at the shader tree that Flavio built for me, mind just went dumb...
 
Old 03-30-2013, 05:33 PM   #8
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anyone have a solution for multi layers in Mental ray??

would love to use the blend method, but my brain cant seem to wrap around how to put it together.

Only thing I can think of as a work around is to render each material layer separately and then comp together in post.
 
Old 07-05-2013, 09:07 PM   #9
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Jobs done... Managed to do a minor post compositing trick to get it working.
But still curious if this could work in max at all... and how
 
Old 07-05-2013, 09:17 PM   #10
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aside from painstakingly throwing in masks in to the reflection\refraction amount slots, I don't think there's another work around.
 
Old 07-05-2013, 10:53 PM   #11
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That was a funny challenge.

Its very frustating that we still don't have a good composite material in mental ray with 3ds max, I still use mental ray for here and there but only vray for professional work, this is just a small example of things that don't work as it should in mental ray.
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Old 07-06-2013, 08:10 AM   #12
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Hi

the composite material or map in 3dsmax is not 100% compatible with mental ray.

My workflow is to use the mib_color_mix shader in mental ray surface slot. This Shader works 100%. You must unhidden this shader in base_max.mi.

Doco about this shader here: http://docs.autodesk.com/MENTALRAY/...__mib_color_mix

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Old 07-06-2013, 04:43 PM   #13
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The same holds true for VRay with the built in blending shadings, but they offer VRayBlendMtl, which is quite fast.

Since I avoid MentalRay like the plague, from years of hating it with Softimage, I have not really played with it much in Max. (Got VRay straight away.) does the Blend material work fast, but just no the composite? Can you just blend over blend? Can you bake your materials to textures?
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Old 07-06-2013, 04:43 PM   #14
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