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Old 06-19-2013, 11:57 AM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cineartist
Doing this in XSI is nearly impossible.

Seriously, to state that this is impossible in Soft is quite off....
Again i would advise people to check out any ice based solution... Strands in Softimage are very powerful and so is ice.

http://www.matkovic.com/anto/ljubic...a-ice-trees.png
Again this is Anto's work, and its quite amazing.

Take note that this is done with one nurbs surface. To takle something like braids i presume you would need about 3 nurbs surfaces, and a lot of patience...

Last edited by neuk : 06-19-2013 at 12:01 PM.
 
Old 06-19-2013, 12:26 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shokan
What type of file are those guides you export from Blender to Houdini?


There is a tab that allows you to convert the guides to geometry (I apologize for my poor terminology). I then export selected as an obj. In Houdini the fileSOP can just references that file so you can work in Blender and render with Mantra/Renderman.
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Old 06-19-2013, 12:31 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cineartist
That does not mean that there are no others that do it. I mean I have not used one. And between Blender, XSI and Maya, Maya is the only one that allows for this - easily. Doing this in XSI is nearly impossible. And in Blender you could probably convert some geo to guides I think. But it is still not the same as in Maya where you can adjust the parameters on the fly to create a virtually unlimited number of styles completely aside from the grooming aspect and do so on a follicle by follicle level.

I have a generate braid along curve ICE compound that begs to differ, as do many other people And as is available in some of the ICE based tools.
You are dicussing shave and haircut, not the entire procedural toolset available through ICE which is an order of magnitude vaster than anything you can hope to achieve with a set of pre-canned tools.
Lets not even get into the kind of tricks you can get Houdini to play.
This also all happens to sim multithreaded, not to mention be available and simulatable at different levels of complexity hierarchically, and with trickle transmission of the parent element data (proper velocity inheritance, coarse to high frequency escalation and so on), something I can't say for some other solutions you seem to hold in high regard.

Quote:
Hair rendering is always a challenge. But you can in fact use Maya nHair with the various Mental Ray features such as Final Gather, Physical Sun and sky etc. And as I said even convert to geo.

Rendering in any engine with curve support is just a matter of the engine providing the primitive and shading models for it, and the hair system passing the data along correctly, something rather trivial and for which no application should receive any praise. They all can more or less do it these days.
Softimage has had proper miHair primitive exports to MRay for a long while (first doing in fact, I believe), and more (full custom curve primitive export) since we got it going at Rising Sun with Charlotte's web some seven or eight years ago and had riCurves pumped into 3Delight straight from the client.

ICE Hair gets rendered as riCurves or as miHair or as ASS curves (Arnold) all the time. Once you have output to the right primitive the features you mention are largely just a matter of the shading model supporting them.
MRay actually does a very poor job of it and I would probably cut my left arm at the elbow rather than render hair in it, let alone if I had to use it in an energy conservation context along with moblur, a sure recipe for it to crap bricks until its pants drop (if you can cobble together the shader to do it in first place).

Same (ability to export, not pants crappage) for Houdini, or Maya plugins other than nHair, which have curve primitive output.

Quote:
I am not going to pretend that hair rendering in Maya is the best. Not at all. But I think it is much better out of the box than XSI. And way better than Lightwave FFX, which is not saying much.

You confuse Maya, Mental Ray, and shading models.
Currently, out of the box, Arnold absolutely dominates this. Lagoa is impressive and has a unique shading model, but you'd be on the cloud, not in a local DCC app.

I can't discuss Blender at all, it might make miracles and bring me coffee, or it might suck utterly, and I frankly wouldn't know, but you are painting a somewhat narrow and confused picture of hair, particularly so the rendering side of things.

And let me state that I mean no offense or personal attack with the above, hopefully it doesn't come across as unnecessarily harsh (it's hardly embellished but not meant to be aggressive), just I started finding the statements a little bit too heavy handed and divergent from the technicalities to ignore this thread furhter (which I had steered away from mid way).
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Last edited by ThE_JacO : 06-19-2013 at 12:49 PM.
 
Old 06-19-2013, 12:52 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shokan
Digital Tutors has Creating Realistic Hair Styles in Maya 2012. $45 for a month subscription. I'd definitely be needing that. Just wondering if between Maya 2012 and 2014 versions there's added hair functionality Autodesk came up with that wouldn't have been presented in the Maya 2012 tutorial.

I'm leaning towards unbiased rendering btw at this point. A Maxwell Maya combination is possible.


I think you'll find this one more current and the other's are good to do because many things in nhair system are the same as classic hair.

http://www.digitaltutors.com/tutori...f-nHair-in-Maya
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Last edited by cineartist : 06-19-2013 at 02:17 PM.
 
Old 06-19-2013, 01:53 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThE_JacO
I can't discuss Blender at all, it might make miracles and bring me coffee, or it might suck utterly, and I frankly wouldn't know, but you are painting a somewhat narrow and confused picture of hair, particularly so the rendering side of things.

And let me state that I mean no offense or personal attack with the above, hopefully it doesn't come across as unnecessarily harsh (it's hardly embellished but not meant to be aggressive), just I started finding the statements a little bit too heavy handed and divergent from the technicalities to ignore this thread furhter (which I had steered away from mid way).


Yes, offense taken. Because you don't even know me.

Your contribution this thread is wonderful. And I agree with everything you presented.

But you don't know enough about me to make any of the assumptions you have made on the negative regarding what technology I am aware of, or why I was not including certain things or what I am "praising" or why.

And I don't feel the need or point in defending it.

With your views it rounds things off quite nicely. Thank you.
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Old 06-19-2013, 02:12 PM   #51
cineartist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neuk
Seriously, to state that this is impossible in Soft is quite off....
Again i would advise people to check out any ice based solution... Strands in Softimage are very powerful and so is ice.

http://www.matkovic.com/anto/ljubic...a-ice-trees.png
Again this is Anto's work, and its quite amazing.

Take note that this is done with one nurbs surface. To takle something like braids i presume you would need about 3 nurbs surfaces, and a lot of patience...


I did not say impossible. I said nearly impossible. And more specifically a PIA as I have tried it. But like as you say.... lots of patience. But then again if I have read you correctly, you have not actually done it, you merely presume. I am only speaking here from my own experience.

And when you use nurbs for hair there are some limitations. It is not the same as using curve guides. You have to take into account all of the things you are wanting to accomplish with the hair system.

Also I am aware of ICE strands. But for me there were a few reasons not to go with ICE for hair. I am a huge ICE fan though. I use Softimage as well as Maya. This may not be the case for everyone. For me nHair made more sense.

There are pluses and minuses to everything. And it is good to get it all on the table.

ICE is definitely an option.
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Old 06-19-2013, 02:12 PM   #52
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