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Old 11-09-2012, 09:29 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WyattHarris
Wait, was that directed at me? Please describe this "tons of money" you speak of.


Lets see...

My bill for Eye exam for glass was $350(no actual glass, just prescription).
Emergency room was $750(we did not get any treatment, just visit).
Dental crown was $1200 - $1600.
One of my prescription was $450 for a oinment.
When we have my first kid, total bill was $16,000(natural delivery).

My co-worker's baby was in ICU for a few month and had a surgery.
Total bill was..... a million.
 
Old 11-09-2012, 09:33 PM   #47
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Since you bring up small business and Obamacare, I will add in my 2 cents:

The place where I worked up until last year was a small business (25 employees) that paid 100% of my health insurance premiums. I will note that this was a software company in the aerospace industry, not the entertainment industry. The premiums kept going up by large amounts 20%, 50%, etc, each year, so the company adjusted the plans a bit to save some money. Co-pays went from $20 to $30, small changes like that. When Obamacare passed, it turned out that our plan qualified as a "Cadillac Plan" and if my company continued to provide that plan they would miss out on tax deductions and would eventually have to pay extra taxes on these plans. So they decided to switch to a high-deductible plan. It seems that now most employers are offering this type of plan, which provides 100% coverage for preventive stuff, but if emergencies or major health issues arise you have to cover the first $3000, or more depending on the insurance you have. So far things have been okay for me, but I miss the peace of mind that my old "Cadillac Plan" provided. It is things like this that make me wonder if Obamacare will "reduce" costs not by making things more affordable through advancements or efficiencies, but by encouraging people not to go to the doctor or use prescriptions because it comes straight out of pocket until they hit the high deductible which is more money than most have on hand.
 
Old 11-09-2012, 10:12 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artbot
Have you ever actually paid for full family health insurance out of your own pocket (not through an employer)? It sort of depends on what your definition of "rich" is, doesn't it?

Dude, what are you talking about?
Are you referring to buying insurance independent of an employer OR are talking about paying for health care costs without insurance? Because I've done both.

Please re-read my last post as I'm trying to understand what Gandhics meant by their "tons of money" comment.

So yes......I've had to pay for insurance independent of an employer AND pay for health care without MANY times in the past, but that has nothing to do with your original comment about one needing "tons of money" to have good insurance.

I merely stated that you don't have to have "tons of money" to have good insurance. I don't have "tons of money".
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Last edited by Locutus : 11-09-2012 at 10:18 PM.
 
Old 11-09-2012, 10:44 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Locutus
So yes......I've had to pay for insurance independent of an employer AND pay for health care without MANY times in the past, but that has nothing to do with your original comment about one needing "tons of money" to have good insurance.

I merely stated that you don't have to have "tons of money" to have good insurance. I don't have "tons of money".


You NEED tons of money to have good quality insurance - if - you buy that insurance yourself. Period. If you are employed and they have a decent system that takes care of most things, then no, you DON'T have to have a ton of money - but then that's due to your employer who most likely gets a group rate which lowers HIS cost and allows them to offer health insurance.
 
Old 11-10-2012, 04:01 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DSW
You NEED tons of money to have good quality insurance - if - you buy that insurance yourself. Period. If you are employed and they have a decent system that takes care of most things, then no, you DON'T have to have a ton of money - but then that's due to your employer who most likely gets a group rate which lowers HIS cost and allows them to offer health insurance.

Well, you're pretty much stating the obvious here. Anyone who has insurance through an employer, through an independent insurer, or has had to pay medical costs without insurance already knows this.

I fully aware of how employers acquire insurance for their employees and the different rates available through the plans they offer. Again, anyone with insurance from their employers would know this. I'm also aware of insurance plans that can be purchased independent of an employer that don't require tons of money.
My original comment was that one does not need to have "tons of money" to have good insurance, with low wait times when setting up appointments.

Maybe Gandhics meant to say you need tons of money to pay for health care WITHOUT insurance.........to which I would agree wholeheartedly. "
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Last edited by Locutus : 11-10-2012 at 04:05 PM.
 
Old 11-10-2012, 04:27 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Locutus
Well, you're pretty much stating the obvious here. Anyone who has insurance through an employer, through an independent insurer, or has had to pay medical costs without insurance already knows this.

I fully aware of how employers acquire insurance for their employees and the different rates available through the plans they offer. Again, anyone with insurance from their employers would know this. I'm also aware of insurance plans that can be purchased independent of an employer that don't require tons of money.
My original comment was that one does not need to have "tons of money" to have good insurance, with low wait times when setting up appointments.

Maybe Gandhics meant to say you need tons of money to pay for health care WITHOUT insurance.........to which I would agree wholeheartedly. "


I guess you didn't read my post in the previous page where it shows that the US has the most expensive insurance in the world by a long shot.
I don't know how people can make the point that insurance is cheap in this country.
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Old 11-10-2012, 05:58 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by leif3d
I guess you didn't read my post in the previous page where it shows that the US has the most expensive insurance in the world by a long shot.
I don't know how people can make the point that insurance is cheap in this country.

Soooo, another person who didn't READ my initial post.

Yeah dude, I read your post. You simply added "relative to the world" to the statement that the OP made. His statement didn't make a comparison to the rest of the world.

I said, one doesn't need to tons of money to have good insurance. I DIDN'T SAY insurance in the U.S. was cheap. Nor did I say insurance in the U.S. was cheap compared to the rest of the world, but I wasn't making that claim. I also get the not all U.S. employers are offering plans that would be considered cheap, but I wasn't making that claim either.

Would I like insurance to cheaper? Of course I would, but that's not going to change until measures are taken to reduce the cost of health care. Until then, I find a plan that works for me and my family......which I have.
Many times.
In fact there hasn't been a time when I've been dissatisfied with my insurance with any of my past employers. I'm not rich, I don't have tons of money........I'm pretty sure most of you make more money than I do................but I have insurance that I'm very pleased with.

Maybe I'm the ONLY guy here who is happy with their insurance and has no complaints with service. Maybe I've been lucky, maybe I'm smart, or maybe it's because I live in one of the most economically sound states in the US. I don't know, but there's nothing I can do about that.

The OP made a general statement, I answered back with another general statement. I really don't see what is so confusing about that.
I know A LOT of other people who would say the same thing, so it isn't just me.

Is it so hard to believe that someone living in the U.S., who doesn't have tons of money, can actually have insurance they are pleased with?
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Old 11-10-2012, 06:27 PM   #53
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You don't need a "ton of money" in the US to get good insurance. Just be prepared to fork over a large chunk of your money to get it. It may take some leg work but IMO it's worth it to fully understand your options and not just take insurance companies plans at face value. There is a ton of options that you may or may not want. I've found that if you look deep enough into insurance plans, you can find some really surprising things as far as cost goes. Honestly that's why I think most people get insurance through an employer, rather than go on their own. It's very confusing to figure it all out on your own.

Even living in Massachusetts, which is what the Affordable Care Act (Obamacare) is based on, it's not cheap to have "good" insurance. Believe me, I've checked just about every insurance company here in Mass., as I was one of the unfortunate people to be a part of the 38 Studios collapse. When 38 Studios went down, we had zero insurance, no cobra due to the circumstances of 38 going under, and my wife and I had to have medical coverage due to some medical issues we were dealing with. Thankfully we were able to get insurance through a different company, and were able to keep from having a gap in coverage so it worked out okay for us in that regard. However, we do have to pay over $1k a month in premiums, on top of a $2k deductible all the while I am currently unemployed (if anyone is hiring character artist please let me know).

I spent a long, long time on the phone/web with insurance companies and I am completely convinced they "want" you to have a hard time understanding their plans. There are so many plans and so many different options it gets very confusing to figure out what is what. My wife and I needed pretty specific things from an insurance plan, sadly none of the "cheaper" plans had those things we needed. It's truly amazing how complicated this whole thing is.

It's the first time in my life when I truly understood how powerful having insurance through your employer is. Having to pay insurance out of pocket is extremely difficult, especially when you're on a limited income such as myself. If I ever get another job in the industry, I'm definitely going to make it a priority that I completely understand the insurance plan, top to bottom. This thread is a great reason to argue that point.
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Old 11-10-2012, 07:07 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Locutus
Soooo, another person who didn't READ my initial post.

It doesn't help to start ones statement with such sarcasm. Passive aggressiveness is pointless.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Locutus
Yeah dude, I read your post. You simply added "relative to the world" to the statement that the OP made. His statement didn't make a comparison to the rest of the world.

When you talk about a country, you make comparisons to other countries. It's logical and pretty common. Sometimes it helps appreciate things, sometimes it helps criticize things.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Locutus
Is it so hard to believe that someone living in the U.S., who doesn't have tons of money, can actually have insurance they are pleased with?

The facts are against you, YES, the facts show that IT IS very hard.
It's usually best to accompany ones experiences with statistics that show reality and facts. It helps understand the country you live in.
I have fantastic health insurance through my company, but that doesn't mean I'm the norm.

The health care reform is supposed to change a lot of these issues, but for now these are the sad facts:

http://sickothemovie.com/_media/SiCKO_sickofactoids.pdf
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Old 11-10-2012, 09:36 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Locutus
My original comment was that one does not need to have "tons of money" to have good insurance, with low wait times when setting up appointments.
You're right... you have to have EITHER tons of money OR be LUCKY enough to obtain a good job that has decent health coverage. It is not easy to do either - and many have crap health coverage because they weren't lucky OR wealthy. That's why so many Americans don't have ANY health coverage - which is why the ACA is a serious step in the right direction.
 
Old 11-10-2012, 09:57 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DSW
You're right... you have to have EITHER tons of money OR be LUCKY enough to obtain a good job that has decent health coverage. It is not easy to do either - and many have crap health coverage because they weren't lucky OR wealthy. That's why so many Americans don't have ANY health coverage - which is why the ACA is a serious step in the right direction.


I think time will tell if ACA is a step in the right direction. If they truly have modeled it after Massachusetts healthcare, then insurance premiums will go up. I live in Mass so I'm pretty aware of how ACA will affect us, if it's modeled after Mass Healthcare like it's been said. I wonder if you have read my previous post?

You do not have to be rich in order to afford a good insurance plan. I do not have "tons of money" and I have pretty good insurance, which I pay for out of pocket, all while unemployed. There are cheaper insurance options than what I pay available, while not the exact same coverage, it's still really good. Maybe it's completely different in other states in the US?
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Old 11-10-2012, 10:52 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by chadtheartist
I think time will tell if ACA is a step in the right direction. If they truly have modeled it after Massachusetts healthcare, then insurance premiums will go up. I live in Mass so I'm pretty aware of how ACA will affect us, if it's modeled after Mass Healthcare like it's been said. I wonder if you have read my previous post?

Unfortunately a HUGE factor is the fact that there is no Public Option. This would have helped a great deal to keep costs down, but unfortunately very few fought for it. Single payer (like Medicare) would have been even better, but even that needs to be improved.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chadtheartist
You do not have to be rich in order to afford a good insurance plan. I do not have "tons of money" and I have pretty good insurance, which I pay for out of pocket, all while unemployed. There are cheaper insurance options than what I pay available, while not the exact same coverage, it's still really good. Maybe it's completely different in other states in the US?

Yes, it does vary state to state. Not to mention the older you are, the more it costs. I'm over 50 as is my wife - to get decent coverage would cost a LOT of money, and we don't even have any pre-existing conditions. Of course there are many insurance companies "out there" that can insure you for little cost - the problem is, when it comes time to pay the doctors/hospitals, they dislike paying out. I have a brother-in-law who thought he had a GREAT plan - until they really needed it, and then he wasted so much time fighting them. It still has yet to be resolved - more than five years later.

It is NOT easy in this country (USA) to get good health coverage unless you have a really good job OR "tons of money." Hopefully very few here would need great coverage, but to get a good plan from a reputable company... it AIN'T easy (or cheap.)

Obamacare is a STEP in the right direction - perhaps if both parties can actually work TOGETHER, they can improve upon it an make it work better than what is in Mass. Time will tell, though I have little faith that working together is possible until a major disaster strikes - a la hurricane Sandy.
 
Old 11-10-2012, 10:52 PM   #58
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