It should be illegal to be able to buy and then kill a program

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  03 March 2014
Originally Posted by mustique: And it's certainly not OK if they lie along the way and mislead their customers.

That's exactly what ADSK has done, and will probably continue to do.

If Autodesk just bought out Softimage last year then I'd agree with you. However, they bought it out 6 years ago. That might as well be 600 in computer years. I believe, within reason, that Autodesk had all intention of supporting Softimage. It just didn't, imo, turn out to be viable enough. Keeping it any longer would've been a waste of resources, as well as diluting their software pool. If anything, Autodesk held onto Softimage for a few years longer than Microsoft did before they dumped it. I'd say that they more than gave it a fair shot. About 7 releases worth, including 2015.

I good example of what you're saying might have been Caligari trueSpace. Microsoft bought them out, probably to combat Google's SketchUp. They promised this bright future for the app then discontinued it a year later. That's more along the lines of what you're saying. Autodesk & Softimage? They had 6 years. I don't think that there was this massive conspiracy.
Quote: They're no software developers, they've become a faceless patent troll.

Maybe so, but that's also a part of the business. Like I said, legends like Edison made their name the patent way. You say "troll". I say "shrewd businessman". PotAEto. PotAHto. You're hating the player when you should be hating the game.

EDIT>>> This is worth mentioning, even if it's obvious. A lot of business owners dream of growing their business to the point where somebody bigger will buy them out. Big businesses invest in their future all of the time and it's not so uncommon for these small businesses to want to be a part of that chain. It makes sense for them because they get a payday. It makes sense for the big guy because all of the R&D and teething problems are already out of the way. I'm not saying that this is what Softimage did, but buying your way to greatness isn't necessarily all that despicable.
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Last edited by cookepuss : 03 March 2014 at 06:37 PM.
 
  03 March 2014
Quote: If they are killing it, maybe a "Softimage foundation" can buy it.

Not going to happen. Sorry. They're likely to strip the app and repurpose some of its key functionality for Maya and 3ds. Why sell off that valuable technology when they could be using it? Why give their competition that edge? The app itself may not be a money maker for them, but it's probably way more valuable as parts. It's "chop shop" mentality; Certain car parts are often worth more than the junkers themselves. Selling off Softimage, imo, isn't an option.
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  03 March 2014
Originally Posted by RobertoOrtiz: Cineartist lets agree to disagree on XSI being a threat to Maya.

It feels too much like the victor of a software War rewriting history.
Soft and then XSI was the nemesis(and I dont use the words lightly) app to Maya.
And this was the norm for a LONG time.

Blow by blow Soft could do what Maya could.

And some might say that it has superior scripting and animation tools.

It is when it got bought that the app got buried..
So lets not downplay how powerful this app is.
EDIT
I meant to say, was.


I will say is and will be for some time.

And I don't downplay how powerful XSI is. At all.

It does not matter what we agree on or not. The numbers don't lie.

I see it as a great app, it was not very broadly embraced by the industry, unfortunately. I learned to use it before Maya and Maya just happened to win out for me over Sotimage as the first go to app for character animation. And no manner of marketing on the part of AD would have changed that.

And I think it would be safe to say this the same thinking in most studios.

If there is anyone to blame it is the industry itself. You know it goes the same way with everything I think.

I think it was the unique qualities that Softimage brought to the table that was the attraction. Not buying up the competition. And in a suite it is a brilliant app to have.

I think AD learned the hard way that packaging it even and lowering the price and trying to get more people to use it just didn't work.

It is just too bad that we did not respond. I mean we as an industry.

You also have to take into account what was the competition for Softimage as a VFX tool in a suite, and frankly that is going to be Houdini, which has been largely embraced by the VFX community.

So I think that is an element that is not being discussed. It does not matter that Softimage also had good character animation tools. I can tell you, they do not stack up feature for feature with Maya in my opinion and I present the number of Maya seats in character animation studios as an indication that I am not alone in this opinion.

The Strong points in Softimage since the time it was bought was ICE I think. And many great things have come to ICE in these last years.

So, then, you could say the competition for Softimage was Houdini and Houdini won.

And that would be a more correct assessment than anything.
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  03 March 2014
Originally Posted by RobertoOrtiz: Cineartist lets agree to disagree on XSI being a threat to Maya.

It feels too much like the victor of a software War rewriting history.
Soft and then XSI was the nemesis(and I dont use the words lightly) app to Maya.


No, it wasn't. Soft/XSI may have had tools that rivalled, and in many cases exceeded those of Maya, but features are one thing, while market share is another. Soft never had the kind of widespread adoption that Maya has, and was never going to. Most people (and studios) don't just switch their software due to a few features, and that's a fact.
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  03 March 2014
I don't think it can be illegal, but I understand people's frustration (and I don't use XSI). I feel like Autodesk has an attitude of ;if you can't beat them, buy them' which you see in many large tech companies these days. I also feel that since they acquired Maya and XSI the pace of innovation has slowed. It's the same way I feel about Adobe for 2d software, first they corner the market, then with each version they introduce barely enough features to keep people upgrading.
 
  03 March 2014
Even though Autodesk does no longer support or is expanding Softimage, if you have the software, you can still use it. Alternately, imagine if it was a cloud application ... whoooo hoooo ... now we'd be talking about something serious.
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  03 March 2014
Originally Posted by cookepuss: If you can't beat `em, crush `em. If there's promise, wipe `em out before they become a threat. That's just how it works.

........but that's just how it is.


Great f*ckin life attitude. And wisdom. Thanks for those inspiring words.

"just how it is" is only what you allow to happen. It happens for the only reason because too many people just shrug their shoulders and hand out their practical wisdom saying "that's just how things are". There will always be greedy bastards that eventually turn everything they touch into shit, and standing up to such scumbags should be your duty if you have any comprehension of the words morals and scruples. Obviously, these are almost dirty words in your vision of the world. Have a nice practical life.

Concerning the belief that Autodesk actually tried to further develop SI and give it a chance, but finally had to throw in the towel because of too much money lost. Lets see:

1. There have never been more render engines integrated in XSI in its entire history compared to the last 2-3 years. Arnold, Vray, Octane, RedShift, Maxwell, 3delight, Thea. All of them working great inside XSI and getting better with each iteration.

2. Never in the history of XSI have there been as many 3rd party developers working in many cases exclusively in XSI, creating not only wonderful tools, but at the same time also restoring the passion and drive of the XSI community.

3. ICE. Calling this just one of XSIs many features, or part of its tools, is an ignorant understatement. The fact that you could visually "program" all sorts of tools from deformers to tree generators, to 3d trackers, to creating all sorts of crazy effects which in other apps would mean buying plugins, or hiring expensive help, it was and still is the future of what a 3D app should look like.

Seems kind of odd to suddenly kill SI now, doesn't it????

Yes, we could all see how much time, money and energy Autodesk poured into making SI more popular. If you went to their website (which probably cost more than 3 years salaries of the entire SI development team), you couldn't even find SI in the menus, you couldn't find it anywhere...

The sad FACT is, they bought it, they tried to bury it as much as they could, while cannibalizing it's features, or at least trying to. The unexpected enthusiasm and productivity of the SI community, delivering for free almost weekly tools that you would have to buy as plugins in Max/Maya, is not part of their marketing plans and control.

Enjoy working for scumbags.

Last edited by Mihai75 : 03 March 2014 at 09:48 PM.
 
  03 March 2014
Company like Autodesk only sees money.
If they made discounited products free,people would go for that rather than paying a fortune for their products on sale.

It would be great for everyone except for the ones that are making money from selling this kind of software.

This is an oportunity as well for people to knock down their products price.
If more software were offered for free or small amount of money people would go for that and Autodesk would be forced to lower the prices.

For that reason they bought xsi and any other.
The ones that lead those companys also only saw money.
 
  03 March 2014
Originally Posted by Mihai75: Great f*ckin life attitude. And wisdom. Thanks for those inspiring words.

"just how it is" is only what you allow to happen. It happens for the only reason because too many people just shrug their shoulders and hand out their practical wisdom saying "that's just how things are".....



I'm sad that leopards and tigers are endangered, but screaming at the sky angry about nature taking its natural course isn't going to change the current ecosystem and natural selection process of the entire planet.

If SI was doing well, it never would have been up for sale for so cheap in the first place. AD never planned to buy them like they did Maya. The opportunity was there and they took it. SI would have probably withered much sooner if they weren't bought out.

Last edited by sentry66 : 03 March 2014 at 09:58 PM.
 
  03 March 2014
Originally Posted by Mihai75: Great f*ckin life attitude. And wisdom. Thanks for those inspiring words.
<SNIP>
Enjoy working for scumbags.

Ever play team sports before? There is only one goal. Win. You don't get the gold through warm feelings, hugs, and a good old fashioned round of "Kumbaya". You can say whatever you want about good sportsmanship, but you're going to do whatever it takes to win. You're going to exploit every single hole in the rule book You're going to turn your opponent's weakness into your strength. That's how it is? That's how everything is. Getting the job. Getting the promotion. Pushing product. Staying competitive. That industry. This industry. Politics. Getting that parking space. ETC and so forth. It's all a game. Learn how to play it or risk losing.

I'm not asking you to agree with me. I don't expect you to agree with me. However, fortune doesn't favor the guy willing to roll over and play dead. It may be a nice idea to let the other guy score so that he can stay in the game, but that's not how you win. I'm not saying that you have to be a ruthless, soulless a-hole. No. I'm just saying, if you want to win, you can't afford to pull your punches. Your competition certainly won't.

In a job interview, do you want to be up against 50 other guys or do you want to be the only contender? Do you want to be at the bottom of the pack or are you willing to do everything in your power to put yourself at the top?

The idea of having competition is nice. It certainly opens up many options for consumers. As a consumer, I'm all for options. As a business owner, the less competition you have, the better. If you're Autodesk, you want to be the only option.

Anyway, that's just my opinion. I like sausage and can live knowing how it's made.

Originally Posted by sentry66: I'm sad that leopards and tigers are endangered, but screaming at the sky angry about nature taking its natural course isn't going to change the current ecosystem and natural selection process of the entire planet.

Bingo.
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Last edited by cookepuss : 03 March 2014 at 10:03 PM.
 
  03 March 2014
Originally Posted by cookepuss: You can say whatever you want about good sportsmanship, but you're going to do whatever it takes to win.

I'm not saying that you have to be a ruthless, soulless a-hole. No. I'm just saying, if you want to win, you can't afford to pull your punches. Your competition certainly won't.


Again, great advice on life.

Don't worry, I understand where you're coming from. What you don't seem to understand yet despite your X years of living and breathing, is that only a short sighted fool can believe they have actually won something in that way, when in reality they have lost something far more valuable.

Not everything in life needs to be a war. The best things humans have achieved so far has been because we want to help each other and see us improve and evolve together. The side you're describing - well, they have at best achieved mediocrity. And money. Is it difficult to make money? F*ck no. Have no morals, have no scruples, follow your advice above.

Autodesk has won.....something, but ultimately they have lost far more which they will not be able to regain, if they ever had it. This is the beginning of their demise.
 
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