Digital Art--- the next big movement?

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Old 05 May 2005   #16
Who is tracy emin?
Watercolours are one of the first tools of creation on the laps of schoolkids, certainly more affordable than a PC and software!
You're right about interaction, though. The computer allows some pretty awesome stuff to happen at the viewer's guidance! But it still is not enough to define it as a "genre". A genre is something much more specific, for example "Interactive Abstract Installations" could be a "genre", or a "trend". Or "Parametric Design" could also be one. Or "self-evolving automata".
But not "computer art". It is too vague, too widespread, and frankly, a little demeaning. Like saying "he paints oils" to sum up Velasquez.
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Old 05 May 2005   #17
Obviously the medium is different. And I'd say that with the current state of things we're actually discussing more than one (2D, 3D, 2D+3D).

Do we go the McLuhan way then? The medium is the message? I never could actually figure out what that meant, beside that the medium is important because it affects the message.

I still wouldn't say that CG is very revolutionary, content-wise, but if you look at it in a weird crooked way, then you might start to think that this "backwardness" in itself is the revolution: if the expected thing is to go forwards, go back.

Hm. Seems that I might have to concur with you on some points, 6foot5.
 
Old 05 May 2005   #18
DrFx, you are right, digital art cannot be seen as a genre, it is too big and too vague, its boundires are nubulous, thats why i am saying it is bigger than that. yet there seems to be no acknowledgement of this, its a revolution on a tectonic leval, shaking the very ground art has become rooted in. those whose job it is to comment on art should have stopped discussing all that has gone before and used the past history of art simply as a yardstick by which to measure digital art and yes , Kalgokultti, the medium is the message. It would be great to see more artworks commentating on and exemplifying the uniqueness of the digital revolution, and exploring the extra dimensions CGI opens.

one case in point is the two catergories for the master servant competition. now, i ask you what is essentially the difference between the two? in terms of the work produced. could not every entry been accomplished in 2d? perhaps the use of 3d tools aids some in creating their final image but find a skilled enough artist with enough time and any 3d entry could have been painted directly in photoshop, infact that is exactly what he computer is doing in a 3d render. what sets these entries apart in essence, what could be accomplished in 3d that could not be in 2d is what we should be concerning ourselves with. and so i compare digital art to that what has gone before. we should put the emphasis on showing what can be done in art with digital technology that never could before .
 
Old 05 May 2005   #19
Talking

Tectonic, schmectonic, the real world's not going to go anywhere soon. (To put it bluntly, I prefer traditional art, if only for the simple reason that viewing a drawing, painting, sculpture or performance is so much more pleasing than viewing any screen there is).

But seriously: I have to admit that I haven't perused the M+S 3D entries very thoroughly. Will have to do it, some of these days, but still I would like to argue your supposition that 3D can do what 2D cannot.

The 3D created for the challenge is still images, neh? As are the 2D ones, obviously. So, the end products are, in essence, the same, when it comes to material: ones and zeroes on a drive somewhere.

I'd say that creating original images is easier in 2D. There are no presets. Well, there are, but if you paint a ball on a surface in Photoshop, the image will have more you in it than many 3D things out there. So being unique is very easy in 2D, easier even, I'd say. How bout that?
 
Old 05 May 2005   #20
when it comes to the Master/Servant challenge, i wasnt arguing that one catergorie was better than the other. i was using the fact that there were two catergories, yet the art produced could have been made in either one, as an anology to how digital art needs to differentiate itself from traditional art. although there is nothing wrong with creating digital works that could have been made in a traditional medium, it is not progressive.
 
Old 05 May 2005   #21
Now I get it. And yup, you have a point again.
 
Old 05 May 2005   #22
Digital art can be re-printed over and over again, copied, pasted, e-mailed, hosted on a website etc. and this makes it disposable, therefore it's value becomes less and less.

If you could paint an image like some of the top-class images we see here in oil,watercolour or acrylic etc. then that image would be worth a small fortune.
Also peoples view of digital art is that many tricks are used to create things like rays of light,straight lines, rain and perspective etc. or they just think that everything in the image is done using some form of computer trickery like pressing a "magic button" which we all know is ridiculous as many a traditional artist will use every trick at their disposal to acheive the right effect, like masking paste, salt, tea, a ruler, a view finder etc.

The general public need to be educated, so lets educate them.
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Last edited by jud : 05 May 2005 at 06:12 PM.
 
Old 05 May 2005   #23
I'm sure that there will be people who will use the computer to create some wonderfully innovative, interactive art - but even so, I find saying that using the computer to paint regularly being a waste is a little presumptuous. Since when is the creative process only about trying new things and inventing new ways to look at something, and not at all about exploring ourselves and focusing on the heart behind something rather than the ways in which we can do any one thing differently?

I love painting on the computer. I never feel like I am, in any way, wasting the great potentiality that the computer has by doing so - to me it is, and will always be, a tool and I will always use the tool to create what I love and what I feel deeply for. That's not taking the Ferrari to buy a pint of milk. That's jumping into the car and going for a wonderful drive down a road you love, with the wind whipping your hair and a big grin on your lips.

'Digital art' is too big to be clumped into a single movement or genre. It's an entirely new tool and this tool will be, eventually, used to create some awesome, new types of art -- and those will be the movements. Maybe one day there will be interactive 3D movies that are considered the height of art (ha ha, yeah, a little like games), where the artsy people will wander around and go oo and aa over this new, wonderful thing. I'm sure there will be. This new genre will likely have a new and catchy name. It will be using the same tool that I use to create my work - which is the computer - but it will be something else entirely. That will make it not better nor worse than what us regular people are up to. Don't rain on our parade. It's not up to someone, anyone, to decide that a tool is used wastefully - anything used to create something that expresses genuine emotion is more than worth the while in my eyes, be it a painting that is very archaic in style or some kind of installation that is very modernistic.

I will never think of a tool as the greatest thing to happen to art in any kind of way. It all comes down to what's going on in our hearts and heads, not what kind of tool we're using to express it with.

I'm probably just repeating what's been said already though, ha ha.
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Old 05 May 2005   #24
A Painter :sumone who actually uses paint to produce art

digital painter: ????

lol...theres a new topic for u guys.



so many digital artists are trying to make art that actually looks like traditional art *thus the program painter was invented*

i don't class that as a movement really,an ART BUISNESS movement *sellin,reproducing* YES!,

but an actual artistic movement...not really.

So i guess my answer is no.i don't think its the next art movement.

interesting topic though.
 
Old 05 May 2005   #25
Digital vs Traditional the new mediuim?---perhaps not

I think didgital art is wwonderful ( I myself do it all the time) but there is much more degree of training and talent when it comes to traditional...as I ve noticed many of the great digital painters have only marginal traditional rendeitions, none Ive seen are as good as their digital ones. traditional requires perfection and proper technique from the very beginning.

Perhaps it is because traditional has much more room for error as digital has the ALL POWERFUL Cntrl+Z( I wonder how many of the digital artists use that!) Any way mixing paints for a color pallette is a science in itself especially mantaining a consistency for the whole painting.

I dont think the experts remain aloof in regarding traditional over digital but I think people also dont feel connected to the piece in terms of buying it because the original remains on someone else's hardrive and owners want a unique piece.
 
Old 05 May 2005   #26
will never think of a tool as the greatest thing to happen to art in any kind of way. It all comes down to what's going on in our hearts and heads, not what kind of tool we're using to express it with.


Damn right!!!
It's not about the tool, it's about the person behind the tool and the innovative ways in which that person uses whatever they have at their disposal.
But having all the right tools adds to the perfection of the piece also.

Perhaps it is because traditional has much more room for error as digital has the ALL POWERFUL Cntrl+Z

This is a very good point, but on the flip side it is quite hard to paint traditionally as there is no undo function so you have to be weary of every brush stroke you make, that is why some artist's can take weeks or months over a single painting and the concentration involved while painting traditionally is quite intense and you need to have the "artist eye" in full effect, and then comes that "timeless zone" you get into where nothing matters but you and the canvas or monitor, in full flow ......mmmmm!
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Last edited by jud : 05 May 2005 at 07:59 PM. Reason: Just wanted to add some stuff
 
Old 05 May 2005   #27
I think the lack of respect for digital art has more to do the the bankrupt state of the fine art world in general. I have nothing but contempt for the fine art world after working in it for a while. But I do think the fine art world does a fine job of reflecting the morally bankrupt world we live in.
 
Old 05 May 2005   #28
I dont mean to say that painting in 2d using a computer was in any way wastefull or pointless. i was only talking in the context of high art, it the context of the progression of art in an abstract , theorectical way. the place given to digital art in such a context may be of no concern to some, and perhaps it dosnt matter, but there is a definite resistence to or misunderstanding of our medium in some circles. It would just be nice to see art inteligentsia acknowledge the digital revolution. i dont claim to be an artist of any worth myself, and i certainly dont claim to be better than any of you guys, i dont even say that i am practising what i preach, im just making an observation. There is no onus on any of you to explore the unique nature of computer art but i think those that do in a imaginitive and creative way are the true avant garde, the real Picassos of our time.


ps. why do some people have like a light saber in their avatars? a glowing stripe, ive seen it in quite a few, whats with that??

Last edited by 6foot5 : 05 May 2005 at 11:12 PM.
 
Old 05 May 2005   #29
this is a dead issue to everyone but "artists"

to my way of thinking, the art piece in digital media is the intellectual property. this concept has been pioneered in the commercial mainstream by franchises such as star wars, or dare i mention, DISNEY, but fine artists have their heads down in their own little worlds.. as to the physical manifestation of this, it can be anything from breakfast cereal to a painting to a toy to an animation to a novel of printed words to a website, whatever. do they have to re copyright mickey mouse for the toy version the comic book the blah blah, no, they copyright a likeness, the concept of a character.

each individual copy is basically worthless, in sharp contrast to traditional physical art objects. but also in contrast, the more that are produced, the more valuable the property in general becomes. so its a trade off of quantity vs. quality of the individual object.

and really this idea of a franchise or IP has nothing to do with digital media. oh but the ability of digital media to LEVERAGE an idea, to make a zillion copies of it for FREE, for anyone to be able to easily get access to it, the ability to take one dataset and use it in every different media basically without extra work compared to before... all that is what digital bring, i think just the sheer amount of work one person can do for $1200 to buy a computer and some software, that is what is new.

i am certainly hoping to promote my work to fine art or other nontraditional art/gallery spaces, as it has no direct commercial venue, i.e. its not a TV show pilot or anything like that. i have some ideas, which i am authoring digitally, and i want to explore every media possible which i can export the data to, physical, interactive, print, video. you name it. i think this is the way of the future and in 20 years a new renaissance of digital artists who are free to explore all media outside the very limited roles you are assigned in commercial production will happen.

arguably it already is happening with artists in these and other online forums, but i think the reason you dont see this work in galleries, is that people arent trying to produce art to PUT in galleries. galliries show photography, they show posters and other prints all the time, the issue of displaying originals died long before andy warhol really. but current CG artists, they are mostly looking to ape commercially viable styles and get jobs working for someone else as a cog in the machine. whereas i am looking to make fun of them i think as one person i will easily be able to stuff an art gallery absolutely full of content in a year.

so to more directly answer the original question, i dont see a digital movement so much as a visual aesthetic style or anything like that, but rather as i think it will lead to an explosion of mulitalented people being able to show off all of their talents in new ways that dont necessarily adhere to traditional media format such as a single still image as the output.

for a less abstract example of what iam talking about, say a make a 3d model, as many of us have done now i can use that in an animation, use that in a still render, import it into a game engine, have it made into a real object with a 3d plotter, render it with a filter to make it look like a van gogh painting ... that initial work is now dozens of separate art pieces. change the color, and print it out again, boom, whole new art piece. render it from a different angle and lighting and call it a remix. people have done that for years with fine art prints, again i see it as identical though maybe there is something i am missing. the burden of making it worthwhile falls on the strength of the imagery and concept, rather than the percieved value of the physical object, in this type of exercise, but thats fine with me, i'm too poor for oil paint.
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Last edited by yenvalmar : 05 May 2005 at 11:54 PM.
 
Old 05 May 2005   #30
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