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Old 01-03-2013, 02:00 AM   #61
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I recently submitted this image for "3d Stills" gallery and was Rejected. I don't know what the reason is. I am sure I followed the guidelines.
Anyways how can I make this better any advices?
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Old 01-03-2013, 02:46 AM   #62
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I can sense a great post from Leigh probably isn't far away, as she is great at offering up crits to declined images, but here are some of my thoughts on this:

- I think now that you are composing a final render you need to pay really close attention to the composition of the overall image. At the moment it is hurting your image badly imo. With all the work you have put into making a great portrait, it seems really weird to then have a landscape orientation on the final image, especially when the background doesn't seem to have had much thought put into it. Your portrait reminds me a lot of this brilliant Steve McCurry portrait:

http://www.beautiful-liguria.com/wp...ve-mccurry.jpeg

He has framed that portrait really well, and if you look at the cowl over the girls head in the image, it almost forms the golden mean against the background (which is simple and textural, and of a complimentary colour to the cowl). He has let the girls body leave the frame in the bottom 1/3rd and given a little space on the side she is facing so the composition doesn't feel cramped. I've no idea whether there is post work done on his photo but the red and green complimentary colours wok great together and the almost perfectly matching hue of her eyes to the background makes this a great looking image even if you pixelize it to the point where you can't really read the girls face any more.

- The lighting could use some work too i think. It's not bad but feels a little simple and doesnt show the model off as well as it could. Study some portrIt photos to see the different lighting scenarios and see if you can come up with something a little more natural and interesting.

- as for the background, i think you need to consider an appropriate environment for the girl and put something more in. Nothing distracting or overly detailed (and it will probably be out of focus in the final image anyway) bu something that frames the face well and gives more interest will help.

Notice all those points are really more about working with what you have and not improving anything that is there, because it looks like the work you have done so far is really pretty good. The shader on the cowl looks very believable, with the softness and texture that feels right to me.
The hair on the head could use some work though. Even very well styled hair will likely have slightly different hues in different places, and the hair would never be all the same length an without any straggly hairs that blow or are knocked out of place. It feels a little bit too diffuse at the moment too, especially for such straight and perfect hair, i would expect to see a bit more shine to it. The lips and eyes are a bit too perfect. A few more pores, freckles, blemishes and general imperfections would probably help a bit, the ones you have are working well...

I'm sure others will be able to help more, this isn't usually my area of knowledge, but i think those humble suggestions could improve this a lot.
Good luck, hope to see more soon!
 
Old 01-03-2013, 03:25 AM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nickmarshallvfx
I can sense a great post from Leigh probably isn't far away, as she is great at offering up crits to declined images, but here are some of my thoughts on this:

- I think now that you are composing a final render you need to pay really close attention to the composition of the overall image. At the moment it is hurting your image badly imo. With all the work you have put into making a great portrait, it seems really weird to then have a landscape orientation on the final image, especially when the background doesn't seem to have had much thought put into it. Your portrait reminds me a lot of this brilliant Steve McCurry portrait:

http://www.beautiful-liguria.com/wp...ve-mccurry.jpeg

He has framed that portrait really well, and if you look at the cowl over the girls head in the image, it almost forms the golden mean against the background (which is simple and textural, and of a complimentary colour to the cowl). He has let the girls body leave the frame in the bottom 1/3rd and given a little space on the side she is facing so the composition doesn't feel cramped. I've no idea whether there is post work done on his photo but the red and green complimentary colours wok great together and the almost perfectly matching hue of her eyes to the background makes this a great looking image even if you pixelize it to the point where you can't really read the girls face any more.

- The lighting could use some work too i think. It's not bad but feels a little simple and doesnt show the model off as well as it could. Study some portrIt photos to see the different lighting scenarios and see if you can come up with something a little more natural and interesting.

- as for the background, i think you need to consider an appropriate environment for the girl and put something more in. Nothing distracting or overly detailed (and it will probably be out of focus in the final image anyway) bu something that frames the face well and gives more interest will help.

Notice all those points are really more about working with what you have and not improving anything that is there, because it looks like the work you have done so far is really pretty good. The shader on the cowl looks very believable, with the softness and texture that feels right to me.
The hair on the head could use some work though. Even very well styled hair will likely have slightly different hues in different places, and the hair would never be all the same length an without any straggly hairs that blow or are knocked out of place. It feels a little bit too diffuse at the moment too, especially for such straight and perfect hair, i would expect to see a bit more shine to it. The lips and eyes are a bit too perfect. A few more pores, freckles, blemishes and general imperfections would probably help a bit, the ones you have are working well...

I'm sure others will be able to help more, this isn't usually my area of knowledge, but i think those humble suggestions could improve this a lot.
Good luck, hope to see more soon!


Thank you very much. I really appreciate your input. I will definitely see what i can do and yeah i felt at the moment that the BG needs to be worked on and honestly my brain didn't worked on it. I will get back and see what i can do . Yes my concept so look like Steve's photograph but that is purely coincidental. This is my first portrait ever. So i have learnt lot of things along the way. I have never done or played with hair system before so that was definitely a learning experience. I purposely didn't add the shine to the hair. I deliberately wanted to have dull diffused look, Oh man dont ask me about imperfection in the hair. I had hard time controlling them >.< hahah. But i agree with you on everything you have mentioned.

Thank you once again for a great crit!
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Old 01-03-2013, 04:03 AM   #64
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Hello,long time no see,

Is a great render, i think the reason it was rejected its about composition, You have skills to do things look great with software but not used appropriately in terms of composition, remember that you are a digital artist and your job as a artist is to take your images tell a story, to amaze people or to show great colors and fun, whatever it is, the composition you show doesn't speak to much.




Think of this annotations( including the crop of the image)


I hope you don't get mad.
 
Old 01-03-2013, 03:01 PM   #65
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I agree with everything that Nick Marshall already mentioned, but figured I'd add in a bit of feedback from myself. In addition to working in VFX, I also work professionally as a photographer, and when I am looking at CG work like this, I look at it from a photographic perspective, as indeed it's photographic portraiture which you're attempting to emulate. As Nick has mentioned, the biggest issues with your image are the composition and the background. The landscape orientation of the image isn't suitable for your subject, as the image doesn't really flow very well, and the background doesn't complement the subject at all.

Like Nick, I also wondered if you were trying to imitate Steve McCurry's photo, as it was the first thing that came to mind when I saw your image - even though it seems you weren't imitating that, it's nevertheless a good reference, as it's a very successful and memorable photo, for the reasons which Nick has already pointed out. Using reference is essential for images like this. Something that I always loved about McCurry's photo is the girl's eyes - they're very striking, and they're the main focus of the image. Our own eyes are I'm immediately drawn to hers. Your image lacks this kind of focus, which would make it a lot stronger, so you should consider doing something similar with yours.

Taking a cue from McCurry's photo, notice how he shot his subject against a background which complemented her eyes. Additionally, green is complementary to red, which really strengthens the mood of the photo. The photo studio type background you've made for your image doesn't complement your figure at all - the tones do nothing for the image, nor do the somewhat distracting shapes of the flash umbrellas, which compete visually with the woman.

I don't necessarily think your lightning is bad but I also find it a little unimaginative. But perhaps with a better background and composition this won't be an issue.

Also, on a more technical aspect, your model looks a little strange to me. She doesn't appear to have shoulders, which is something I find quite jarring. I also find her hair too perfect, and her eyes a little dead. Her face is also a little too perfect, which makes her look rather unreal. Perhaps you were intentionally going for a perfect beauty, but I think this ends up taking your character into the Uncanny Valley, as she just ends up looking a little like a shop mannequin. Real humans have imperfections like asymmetrical faces.

Perhaps a slightly controversial issue to raise is the fact that I find it a little odd that you have a western woman wearing a headscarf. As a woman myself, I view headscarves as a symbol of female oppression and find the use of a western woman combined with the insinuation of the use of the word "innocence" in your title a little disturbing. But perhaps I am reading too much into it.
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Old 01-04-2013, 02:01 AM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leigh
I agree with everything that Nick Marshall already mentioned, but figured I'd add in a bit of feedback from myself. In addition to working in VFX, I also work professionally as a photographer, and when I am looking at CG work like this, I look at it from a photographic perspective, as indeed it's photographic portraiture which you're attempting to emulate. As Nick has mentioned, the biggest issues with your image are the composition and the background. The landscape orientation of the image isn't suitable for your subject, as the image doesn't really flow very well, and the background doesn't complement the subject at all.

Like Nick, I also wondered if you were trying to imitate Steve McCurry's photo, as it was the first thing that came to mind when I saw your image - even though it seems you weren't imitating that, it's nevertheless a good reference, as it's a very successful and memorable photo, for the reasons which Nick has already pointed out. Using reference is essential for images like this. Something that I always loved about McCurry's photo is the girl's eyes - they're very striking, and they're the main focus of the image. Our own eyes are I'm immediately drawn to hers. Your image lacks this kind of focus, which would make it a lot stronger, so you should consider doing something similar with yours.

Taking a cue from McCurry's photo, notice how he shot his subject against a background which complemented her eyes. Additionally, green is complementary to red, which really strengthens the mood of the photo. The photo studio type background you've made for your image doesn't complement your figure at all - the tones do nothing for the image, nor do the somewhat distracting shapes of the flash umbrellas, which compete visually with the woman.

I don't necessarily think your lightning is bad but I also find it a little unimaginative. But perhaps with a better background and composition this won't be an issue.

Also, on a more technical aspect, your model looks a little strange to me. She doesn't appear to have shoulders, which is something I find quite jarring. I also find her hair too perfect, and her eyes a little dead. Her face is also a little too perfect, which makes her look rather unreal. Perhaps you were intentionally going for a perfect beauty, but I think this ends up taking your character into the Uncanny Valley, as she just ends up looking a little like a shop mannequin. Real humans have imperfections like asymmetrical faces.

Perhaps a slightly controversial issue to raise is the fact that I find it a little odd that you have a western woman wearing a headscarf. As a woman myself, I view headscarves as a symbol of female oppression and find the use of a western woman combined with the insinuation of the use of the word "innocence" in your title a little disturbing. But perhaps I am reading too much into it.


Hi Leigh. Thanks for stopping by.

Background - I'll see what i can do with the BG and i have already cropped the picture to portrait format It does look better.

"Like Nick, I also wondered if you were trying to imitate Steve McCurry's photo" Not at all. It wasnt even on my mind untill Nick mentioned it But yes I do remember that picture my teacher showed me long ago when I was studying photography.

"I always loved about McCurry's photo is the girl's eyes - they're very striking, and they're the main focus of the image. Our own eyes are I'm immediately drawn to hers. Your image lacks this kind of focus, which would make it a lot stronger, so you should consider doing something similar with yours. " I absolutely agree with that, I will try to work on her eyes and see what I can come up with"

"your model looks a little strange to me. She doesn't appear to have shoulders, which is something I find quite jarring. I also find her hair too perfect, and her eyes a little dead. Her face is also a little too perfect, which makes her look rather unreal. Perhaps you were intentionally going for a perfect beauty, but I think this ends up taking your character into the Uncanny Valley, as she just ends up looking a little like a shop mannequin. Real humans have imperfections like asymmetrical faces. " I see what you are talking about. and Yes i wanted to make a perfect beautiful face. May be I have failed, Might have added some A sym and that could have helped. But i wont be working on the model anymore, So i wont be doing any model changes as that will involve lot of re work, Modeling, UV, Texturing has to be re done. I am not scared of re working, but i need to get this done now. it has almost takes quiet some time and i am over it >.< I can only make changes to make it better. What ever mistakes i have make in this project, i will just try to not redo those and get better.

"Perhaps a slightly controversial issue to raise is the fact that I find it a little odd that you have a western woman wearing a headscarf. As a woman myself, I view headscarves as a symbol of female oppression and find the use of a western woman combined with the insinuation of the use of the word "innocence" in your title a little disturbing. But perhaps I am reading too much into it." By no means I am trying to symbolize anything here, In fact i never ever thought of opression, innocence, scarf flowing together and become controversial. haha its funny how you read it and Yes you read it little too much. I wasn't trying to point anything here by combining the three elements or trying to symbolize anything here.

I absolutely loved the Crit Leigh and Nick. Thank you so much.

Leigh a question for you. I am wondering why do you think the scarf sort of symbolize female oppression? I mean couldnt it be that a female chose to wear it. It doesn't have to be oppression. Innit? I have seen quiet lot of western females that wear scarf and that scarf can be work because may be it cold? ahahah..
oki work time now! boss is around baiiii!
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Old 01-04-2013, 02:27 AM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rajbir
Leigh a question for you. I am wondering why do you think the scarf sort of symbolize female oppression? I mean couldnt it be that a female chose to wear it. It doesn't have to be oppression. Innit? I have seen quiet lot of western females that wear scarf and that scarf can be work because may be it cold? ahahah..
oki work time now! boss is around baiiii!


The "they choose to wear it" argument is often used in defence of it, but the reality is that of course women are going to "choose" to wear a headscarf if they've been indoctrinated since birth into believing they must wear it if they don't want to be viewed as immodest. To me, the headscarf is absolutely a symbol of oppression - the entire concept of "modest" or "chaste" clothing for a woman is unfairly placing the supposed inability of men to control themselves as a responsibility of the woman. It implies that women are inherently whores who must cover themselves up. If men are going to feel uncontrollable urges to rape a woman if she's not wearing a headscarf and shapeless robe, then that's because those particular men simply don't respect women. Of course, this only applies to certain cultures, and you'll notice that the men can wear whatever they want. It's a symbol of sexism and even outright misogyny, used to dominate and control women.

I'd continue ranting about it but this isn't really the place, suffice to say that I abhor the centuries of sexist discrimination and abuse that women have had to endure at the hands of religious "moral values", with the greatest tragedy being that these archaic views are detrimental to both sexes, resulting in dysfunctional ideas about sexuality.
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Old 01-04-2013, 04:36 AM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leigh
The "they choose to wear it" argument is often used in defence of it, but the reality is that of course women are going to "choose" to wear a headscarf if they've been indoctrinated since birth into believing they must wear it if they don't want to be viewed as immodest. To me, the headscarf is absolutely a symbol of oppression - the entire concept of "modest" or "chaste" clothing for a woman is unfairly placing the supposed inability of men to control themselves as a responsibility of the woman. It implies that women are inherently whores who must cover themselves up. If men are going to feel uncontrollable urges to rape a woman if she's not wearing a headscarf and shapeless robe, then that's because those particular men simply don't respect women. Of course, this only applies to certain cultures, and you'll notice that the men can wear whatever they want. It's a symbol of sexism and even outright misogyny, used to dominate and control women.

I'd continue ranting about it but this isn't really the place, suffice to say that I abhor the centuries of sexist discrimination and abuse that women have had to endure at the hands of religious "moral values", with the greatest tragedy being that these archaic views are detrimental to both sexes, resulting in dysfunctional ideas about sexuality.

I see what you mean. There are few things I disagree to and i would love to talk about it. But agree this is definitely not the place to talk about. Thank you very much for the response ! See you around.
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Old 01-04-2013, 04:36 AM   #69
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