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Old 10-29-2003, 01:33 PM   #61
iwask
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Quote:
Originally posted by Soulstorm
Though I really enjoyed the extremely well-written article, I think i'm pretty much the only one who thinks this is a bad idea. You mustn't seperate emotional/evocative art from just a well rendered 2d paiting or 3d model. Sure i agree that the two are totally different, but if you're gonna make an entire forum for it you're pretty much only gonna get angsty teens trying to be deep, and often with poorly made art (sorry if i sound a bit elitist there). I wonder if anyone agrees with me on this, and even if anyone actually reads until this page instead of just commenting to say its a great idea.


I read your article carefully

But I think Mark's idea was good.

Last edited by iwask : 10-29-2003 at 02:07 PM.
 
Old 10-29-2003, 01:48 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally posted by Soulstorm
Sure i agree that the two are totally different, but if you're gonna make an entire forum for it you're pretty much only gonna get angsty teens trying to be deep, and often with poorly made art (sorry if i sound a bit elitist there).


Got your point and I think it's true, but well, we kindly suggest going back to the drawing table and the modelling room because the mistakes interfere with the mood of the picture, and they will go back and we live happily ever after.

No problems so far. And then we have the stunning art that is technical outstanding but lacks a feeling, the emotion. That's what this forum is for. If we can make those pieces perfect by adding emotion I guess we accept the other pieces that come with it.

cheers
 
Old 10-29-2003, 03:10 PM   #63
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First off - Great Idéa! I'm really looking forward to this forum.

BUT....

I'm a bit worried about it, because it could end up as another "focused critique" where everyone
basically are silent, not saying a thing.

What I've seen over time here is that those who get's helped are either the extreme-beginners or the absolute professionals.

There are a certain tendency to comment on works with "easy-to-spot" errors
and of course fan-boy commenting on the fantastic work.

Now...while there's nothing wrong with that at all, one can wonder what happens to the mid-range posts.
It seems like deserted abandon-land where they can't come any further because noone
has anything to say, it's not good enough to make the better artists "bother" to help
and it's too good for the rest to point out basic technical errors.

Example - some images & works & w.i.p's I post - rarely or ever gets any feedback at all - that is HUGELY frustrating because
one feels that one doesn't know where to take it from there.

I've been thinking - MAYBE the above has something to do with
the expression of the images alone, perhaps they really are
so BORING that no-one has anything to say.

In fact - if things are boring - I'd LOVE to know, and especially
getting feedback on how to improve that so it'd be more
interesting.

God I'm excited about this new forum, I really *hope* that
this is what can PUSH things forward.

Great initiative!

/SketchPad
 
Old 10-29-2003, 07:29 PM   #64
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I think too much partitioning can be bad.

What's the difference between a critique and a 'focused' critique?

Every piece of art 'evokes' some emotion to some extent. This all seems very subjective and uneccessary. I can appreciate why conveying emotion is important - I just don't think watering down the boards like this is a good idea.

How is someone to know if their piece is 'evocative'? Maybe it's very evocative to them. Will we be voting on what's 'evocative' to determine once and for all a homogenized list of standard emotional responses from humans?

Sounds kind of Orwellian to me.

Last edited by fluorovision : 10-29-2003 at 08:08 PM.
 
Old 10-29-2003, 08:36 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally posted by fluorovision
What's the difference between a critique and a 'focused' critique?


Fanboy comments are critique in a way. But not focused.

Quote:
I'm a bit worried about it, because it could end up as another "focused critique" where everyone stays silent


Dude I consider "focused critique" the best forum around. BUT because people need time to really take a look at your wip the response can take longer. But response there is, certainly, and focused! I've learned a big deal about modelling chars there from my wipthread in the FC. It just takes longer. I've seen people posting there, wait for an hour and then reply: "no comments? :/" that's what I call impatience.
 
Old 10-29-2003, 09:28 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally posted by Soulstorm
Though I really enjoyed the extremely well-written article, I think i'm pretty much the only one who thinks this is a bad idea. You mustn't seperate emotional/evocative art from just a well rendered 2d paiting or 3d model.

These things already HAVE been separated, around these forums... because at the moment, the emotiona/evocative aspect of pieces is being almost completely overlooked in favor of technical crits. The idea isn't to separate the two, but to make a spot for the stuff that's being missed, to encourage it.

Quote:
Sure i agree that the two are totally different, but if you're gonna make an entire forum for it you're pretty much only gonna get angsty teens trying to be deep, and often with poorly made art (sorry if i sound a bit elitist there). I wonder if anyone agrees with me on this, and even if anyone actually reads until this page instead of just commenting to say its a great idea.

That's your opinion. And yes, it does happen, but not all the time.

Only some people appreciate discussions on the emotions in an art piece, and other folks will just roll their eyes at it-- that's how it goes. If you don't like it, and if detailed discussions on subjective, emotional topics aren't your thing, you can post your work elsewhere.
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Old 10-29-2003, 11:00 PM   #67
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Quote:
Originally posted by Soulstorm
... You mustn't seperate emotional/evocative art from just a well rendered 2d paiting or 3d model. ...


Its not about separation of anything. Its about getting people to think about and improve an important aspect of their work that often gets too little attention by a significant percentage of "digital artists". The wide availability of digital painting tools and computers is a fantastic thing for budding digital artists. However there is a tendency to focus on technical issues (which do need to be mastered) when there should be at least a simillar, if not greater, attention paid to artistic skills (that would get taught in various fine arts schools) that relate to the subject regardless of how it is "rendered" (2D, 3D media, style - whatever).
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Old 10-30-2003, 10:35 AM   #68
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Old 11-09-2003, 11:50 AM   #69
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Thumbs down fantastic idea

i think this is a good way for emotionaly charged artist to show their stuff, i trully dig this forum, and i will be pleased to contribute, cheers, Tania



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Old 11-09-2003, 01:27 PM   #70
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Great Idea

This forum is exactly what I need! I am still developing my artistic skills, and now I will be able to have a more wholistic learning process; in other words, art skills as opposed to techinical skills. With the avaliability of computers and other technology virtually anyone can make 'art'. This forum I believe will show people the difference between technical and artistic work.
 
Old 02-06-2004, 04:42 PM   #71
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Thumbs down

Finaly!!!!

The one absolute most important thing rears its ugly head. When you have got over the technical wonder of it all we are back to square one. I have been illustrating for 20 years and have experienced the evolution from the computer being a huge machine you never saw (punched holes in a card, a week later get a card back with other holes punched not having a clue what the holes meant) to the most awsome story telling tool imaginable. Now we get back to the essence!

There is so much crap out there. You see stuff that is technically dazling but revolting in content, and stuff that is technical crap but brilliant. I guess if you only want to make brilliant models or scripts then this forum won't be of interest and you would go to the 'Focused crit' place (don't get me wrong there is also a place for that).

I am principally interested in character design and animation, but as an industrial designer I don't balk at doing architectural, vehicle or mechanical design and visualisation to feed me before I get discovered by Pixar 'Dang it all' the damn thing has to COMMUNICATE! I can't sell a building or a bolt if I can't bridge the gap twix the design and the viewer.

Thankyou
Thankyou
Thankyou

I found a home!

Greetings Kanga
 
Old 05-16-2004, 01:23 AM   #72
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Very Good Idea !!! Congratulations. This new forum has lot of potential to us, who are looking to improve the "inner content" of each picture or animation. I think that the emotion that every work provoques is the esential thing. Techy stuff are only see by profesionals, but emotion is something that reaches every person and mades the real impact, the ones who stay in your mind. Cheerz
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Old 05-21-2004, 05:36 AM   #73
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Thanks first for the article, Mark, and for drawing attention to the issue...

Second, as far as I can see, this forum *builds* us, as the CG community, as digital artists, so thanks to Mark an anyone else who contributes to this forum as intended for sharing your expertise to take our art to the next level.

As the article says, the Evocative forum is about bringing the evocative or emotional element to works that would otherwise be a bit flat or 'lifeless' despite being well executed in a technical sense and perhaps even being aesthetically pleasing, but lacking the 'zing factor' (or ability to evoke emotion) that would make people really want to let their eyes linger...

So this forum is a great complement to technical forums, not duplicating what's already there or a place where people will be posting works lousy in technical execution.

Thirdly, having seen and read about the stunning and evocative images spawned by the Alienware Challenge earlier this year, hopefully CGTalk will run a challenge that focuses on making digital artwork evoke those complicated kinds of emotions on the last page of Mark's article.
 
Old 10-20-2004, 11:53 PM   #74
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I read the requisit article, was impassioned, inspired, impressed. Got here, and now wonder, what happened to such a great idea. No artwork submitted, no discussion. Lots of early "good idea" posts but very little if any real substance.

Is this a viable forum or no? I appreciate the evocative focus, identify with sentiments of the founder of this thread/thread, but wonder, what happened, and why it has failed to generate participation.

Prior to submission for consideration/critique, please advise posting requirements/limitations.

Thank you,

t3logy

OOPs, guilty of putting foot in mouth - did not take the time to peruse further. Very good section.

Last edited by t3logy : 10-22-2004 at 03:50 AM.
 
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