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Old 03-18-2017, 07:55 AM   #1
mitchino
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redshift OSX development news

https://www.redshift3d.com/forums/viewthread/11494/

Interesting that the Mac nvidia drivers are fast - c'mon Apple! give the people what they want!
 
Old 03-18-2017, 03:59 PM   #2
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Those are the old Nvidia drivers, right. There are no Pascal drivers (and may never be).
 
Old 03-19-2017, 04:02 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lancemoody
Those are the old Nvidia drivers, right. There are no Pascal drivers (and may never be).


Agree with Lance. Don't hold your breath.

Start looking at custom PCs if you want to move forward now and not later (if ever). Once you make the switch, a half-assed selection of GPUs with only half of those having decent drivers is a problem you'll never face again. Build a solid PC with a high-end Nvidia card in it and every worthwhile software option on the market is suddenly in play. Oh and you get crazy options like having available PCIe lanes for additional cards or NVMe drives. Who would want that??

Apple is 100% lipservice, paid in the middle of their absurd 4 year development cycles, and 100% out of touch with reality. They know best (in their own mind).

Last edited by Blinny : 03-19-2017 at 04:07 PM.
 
Old 03-19-2017, 07:35 PM   #4
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I wonder what is the sense of Redshift guys to spend resources in what appears a dying platform.
 
Old 03-19-2017, 08:14 PM   #5
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I know Macs are unpopular here, but I think it's a bit premature to call it a dying platform! The Redshift Devs are also looking at development for AMD gpus, whether on mac or PC.
 
Old 03-19-2017, 08:29 PM   #6
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It's not unpopular as much as formerly popular.
 
Old 03-19-2017, 10:08 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mitchino
I know Macs are unpopular here, but I think it's a bit premature to call it a dying platform! The Redshift Devs are also looking at development for AMD gpus, whether on mac or PC.


If Apple+Hardware(from couple years ago) can't compete with Windows+Hardware combo it has no sustainability. It is effectively dead
You don't invest in platform that only updates every 5 or 7 years while the competition has new/better stuff every year.
 
Old 03-19-2017, 10:12 PM   #8
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mitchino: I wouldn't say their literally dead, just effectively dead for anyone who doesn't want to wait around for 3-4 years every time Apple makes bad design and BTO decisions (or no BTO decision in the most recent case of 2013).

First we gave them a WTF for taking away our PCI slots and they said "Thunderbolt everything!" Only you can't efficiently Thunderbolt the one thing people would want most a GPU upgrade path like they always had even if limited choices. Furthermore there are still only a few mainstream TB chassis for Mac, most one slot only and underpowered. Translation: their "solution" is not a real solution.

Then we gave them the WTF for going with OpenCL / AMD and they said "look at all these logos of developers we have partnered with!" Only most of those developers never actually made anything OpenCL for the MacPro6,1. Then they / their proponents said "give it time for stuff to get re-writen to OpenCL." Except they let the API languish (to the point of giving up on it themselves) and as a result few devs built anything of worth... even four years on.

Now we're giving them the WTF for nothing new over the last 4 years after all the complaints and direction, and they gave us "we're still doing great things in the Pro space / we care about the Pro space." Yeah, and politicians care more about solving the problems they talk about than getting re-elected at all costs. These guys are more like politicians than serious hardware developers at this point. Ignore their words, pay close attention to their actions (and lack of action over long periods of time).


There will always be people who trust the Apple brand and buy whatever sleek but increasingly less functional crap they shovel out. It will never truly die in that sense as long as the computers remain reliable. But that hardly matters to someone trying to make a living or bust in the VFX / 3D space today, six months, ago, a year ago, two years ago. Probably two years from now... .

If they reverse course (effectively admitting "we made a mistake and we hear you") and release something this year with multiple PCIe slots and enough power for two GPUs, maybe a couple M.2 slots too boot, I'll eat my hat.

Last edited by Blinny : 03-19-2017 at 10:24 PM.
 
Old 03-20-2017, 05:49 PM   #9
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Redshift

Spoke a while back by mail with a nice chap from Redshift and although they had not officially given up on macs his advice was to get a PC to stay current. It will be the forefront for any render engine. Painful few weeks move over but the speed of Octane (what we use presently) of a few good GPUs is gamechanging.
 
Old 03-20-2017, 06:30 PM   #10
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Popularity of Apple depends on opinion...but here are some numbers

Apple "Trashcan": MacPro top-of-the-line in Apple Store Today
Cinebench CPU score: 966
Cinebench GPU score: 86
No Nvidia/No Cuda
You wanna upgrade it, LOL
Price: $4,759

Ryzen-Based 1800 System w/Nvidia 1080
Cinebench CPU score: 1636
Cinebench GPU score: 169
Nvidia/CUDA
Easy Upgrades
Full System Price: $1,700
 
Old 03-20-2017, 11:37 PM   #11
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My 12 core cheese grater with 980ti isn't as far behind that Ryzen build as I thought it would be.

Cost a little more, but even though parts of it are 8 years old I could sell it tomorrow for more than the Ryzen.
 
Old 03-21-2017, 08:28 AM   #12
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Quote:
I could sell it tomorrow for more than the Ryzen.


I'm sure it's still a fine machine with plenty of value and power under the hood, but really? you could sell an older and lesser machine now for more than a brand new, cheaper and more powerful one?

Who would do that? We're talking about a pro machine, not a "cool" laptop. I tend to think professionals value differently their investment in a more utilitarian way (power/money) and know a little more about the hardware market.

Or is it because some people are so afraid of windows and the trashcan is so bad that this constitutes a captive market ready to spend this kind of premium for a 6 years old machine?

I loved the cheese-grater case design and build, but this eludes me...
 
Old 03-21-2017, 08:58 AM   #13
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Yes really - the point I was trying to make is that those old macs hold their value. They are incredibly reliable computers. The earlier comparison was between a trash can mac pro and a Ryzen build. I totally agree that the trashcan is horribly over priced, and I wouldn't buy one. But my souped up cheese grater is 90% as fast as the high end trash can and a lot cheaper. When I compare that to the Ryzen, it really isn't as far behind or useless as I'd feared.
 
Old 03-21-2017, 12:54 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mitchino
Yes really - the point I was trying to make is that those old macs hold their value. They are incredibly reliable computers. The earlier comparison was between a trash can mac pro and a Ryzen build. I totally agree that the trashcan is horribly over priced, and I wouldn't buy one. But my souped up cheese grater is 90% as fast as the high end trash can and a lot cheaper. When I compare that to the Ryzen, it really isn't as far behind or useless as I'd feared.


if you do a lot of rendering locally, dont forget to factor in power bills. depending on your country/rendering habbits. The billso ver a year could easily cost you as much as a new machine which eats 30% of the power..
 
Old 03-21-2017, 07:50 PM   #15
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Good point! Surely that's a real problem with your multi GPU rigs, they must eat power.

My studio in freezing Scotland is heated entirely by cheese graters and an iMac!
 
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