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Old 12-28-2006, 03:53 AM   #91
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Frant description

I am awed by all the work in this forum!

For those who dont have a reference, I came across another passage on frants.

chpt 17:

"It stood about seven feet high, skinny, narrow head like a sideways board with jutting and unbinking eyes regarding him calmly. Its two long arms emerged from the torso well below where the shoulders should have been and were covered with something similar to the foil ration packets. The legs were short and powerful looking. Its skin was smooth and reflective -- not shiny or slimy, but polished like old wood."



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Old 12-28-2006, 04:32 AM   #92
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the Tube rider description

some more info on the tube rider


chptr 7:

It was called a tuberider. Sitting next to it -- brought up in three cocoons by a subsequent OTV -- was a highly modified Boeing -- Bell prop-driven vertical/short takeoff and landing aircraft, V/STOL for short, model number NHV-24B.
It was the most peculiar aircraft he had ever seen, Developed initially for th eUS Air Force, Designed for search and rescue missions, it could rotate its two wingtips-mounted engines through 120 degrees. The five broad blades of each prop could be folded back into the engine nacelles. And in the tail, aimed slightly above the centerline, was a keosene-oxygen rocket engine, no doubt to provide extra thrust-- but under what conditions?
Its wings were rakishly forward-swept and were mounted three-quarters back on the fuselage, almost touching the V-tail. It could carry 18 people and a lot of equipment. It was ar once an airplane and helicoptor and rocket.
----

The V/STOL could be fitted to the tuberider in three positions: like an arrow sticking from th eside of a log, nose and refueling nozzle inserted mid-cylinder; in the configuration of its first mission, inserted "up the cylinder's ass" as Heineman thought of it, as it rocket propelled the tuberider down the middle of the plasma tubes and bore holes to the seventh chamber: or clamped to the cylinder along its belly.
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Old 12-29-2006, 03:03 PM   #93
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>>>Please read the following few lines!<<<

Sorry for posting this near the end, but as a physician I must say that the whole physics foundation of the book is flawed! If we are to depict a scene from this book then at least let's be honest with eachother and don't tell everyone that the geometry of the chambers is correct. And if that's not correct then why limit our interpretation in the first place?

Why the whole foundation is flawed? Because it revolves around a time-space singularity. For those of you who don't dig into physics, a time-space singularity is an area in the cvadri-dimensional space (4D) where the time ends and the density is infinite (also causing huge graviational fields, but only around a tiny area). It's an area where Einstein's general relativity can't answer and quantum mechanics come into play. I won't hold a lecture now but I will say that such places:

a) only exist inside a colapsed area such a black hole or a colapsed universe

b) have an 'horizon of events'; Once something passes by that horizon it cannot escape anylonger. it's a point of no return

Besides point b which throws away the whole plot of the book (lucky for us that it's only a SF ), the time-space fold is so curved near such a singularity that almost every object gets distorted and broken in million pieces before ever reaching it's end of time (singularity). Horray for the mighty chambers!
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Old 12-29-2006, 05:58 PM   #94
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I appreciate the scientific pointers, don't take me wrong (in fact as soon as I read 'singularity' in the book I thought 'black hole'). I think though that a couple of things are to be considered. One: Eon is a book of speculative fiction, not a physics essay, as such it has no obligation to be true to science as we know it.
Two: I might be wrong but when reading posts about the chamber geometry being correct I always interpreted it as 'being correct in relation to how the book describes it' not necessarily to real world science or perspective.

In this Challenge we have been asked to work 'on spec', the specs being provided by the imagination of Eon's author.
The task is challenging, indeed, and some of us might find it not to their taste for a moltitude of very legitimate reasons but, for those who accepted the task, the artistic freedom of interpretation, in my opinion, must be balanced by the need to respect at the best of our possibilities mr. Bear's vision of Eon.
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Old 12-29-2006, 07:28 PM   #95
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Well said, Thaldir!
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Old 01-16-2007, 04:35 PM   #96
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Actually that totally depends on the deffinition of 'singularity' you use. By a classical sense yes you are right a singularity is a condition where space, time, mass and just plain everything is collapsed into an infinitely dense 1 dimensional 'point' as it were.

However, once you jump to multi-dimensional theories, especially dealing with branes and strings, then things get stranger yet. Many current theories suggest that higher spacial dimensions are rolled up into loops anr/or cylinders so tightly that they appear virtually 1 or 2 dimensional. Each of these rolled up dimensions then are stacked across every possible point in a lower dimension or loops through other dimensional manifolds (such as calabi-yau spaces). Thus you can have singularities composed of rolled up dimensional branes that stretch out infinently (well that actually depends on the lower dimension(s) to which it is either attached or loops through).

The real issue then comes in that the Flaw actually has width and height as well as length. But again that might be conceivable as well thanks to a condition known as conifold transitions. Technically these only happen around collapsing/flipping string loops, but the concept could (fictionally anyways) extend to much larger constructs such as protecting an enlarged rolled membrane and somehow held in a static condition, which in and of itself is something requiring even higher dimensions then the current 10 + 1(supergravity) dimensional limits normally accepted.
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