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Old 10 October 2012   #16
Originally Posted by ZombieMariachis: Lunatiqu: I like showing people these two images from notable illustrators Rockwell and Elvgren. They convey the point perfectly!


I'm not sure if simply showing these examples help, because the real problem lies in the fact that inexperienced artists have this misinformed idea that they are supposed to be able to achieve that level of realism, naturalness, expressiveness, likeness, and accuracy by working solely out of their heads. At some point, they got brainwashed by the ignorant masses regurgitating the false notion that the only artistic integrity in existence is if you do everything out of your head, regardless of the level of realism you're trying to achieve. They don't know (because no one told them or taught them properly) that once an artist attempts past a specific level of realism and, they MUST use references (be it photos or observing real life such as plein air painting or using models), otherwise, you will hit a ceiling and cannot get beyond it, until you use references. This is true no matter how experience, advanced, or talented you are, but it is precisely this point they don't understand and get brainwashed on. These misinformed people go around deriding any artwork that looks like it used references, and they go and make personal attacks on artists who use references as part of their workflow.

That, is the real tragedy.
 
Old 10 October 2012   #17
"I'm not sure if simply showing these examples help, because the real problem lies in the fact that inexperienced artists have this misinformed idea that they are supposed to be able to achieve that level of realism, naturalness, expressiveness, likeness, and accuracy by working solely out of their heads."

Lol! That's precisely why I show people those images. It shows them that not even Rockwell could achieve those things without reference.
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Old 10 October 2012   #18
This is very helpful. Thank you for posting.
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Old 10 October 2012   #19
Originally Posted by ZombieMariachis: "I'm not sure if simply showing these examples help, because the real problem lies in the fact that inexperienced artists have this misinformed idea that they are supposed to be able to achieve that level of realism, naturalness, expressiveness, likeness, and accuracy by working solely out of their heads."

Lol! That's precisely why I show people those images. It shows them that not even Rockwell could achieve those things without reference.


The scary thing is, some of them are so misguided and so brainwashed, that they would actually lose respect for Rockwell and Elvgren because they used references. They are not experienced or wise enough to know where the threshold for a human being's ability to depict that level of realism begins and ends.
 
Old 10 October 2012   #20
As I beginner, I remember when I thought reference should be minimized if used at all. Then after reading about the process that other succesful artist use, I realized that they all include reference!

Funny because even when I speak to a non artitistic person, they somehow have a friend or a relative who can draw without any reference. This is after they've seen my anatomical studies and the reference photos. I smile. "yea they must be awesome".

That's what I love about this place.

Now to learn to use reference photos effectively in my work flow will be my next feat!
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Old 10 October 2012   #21
First rule I was taught was your only as good as your reference. This is why a lot of illustrators are pretty good photographers. This doesn't mean you should copy it. Rockwell and Elvgren are excellent examples of how to use reference. Also just because it's a photo doesn't make it right. Example: the artist doing the violinist. All that foreshortening... your asking for trouble.

little side note.
I watched this dvd on Frank Frazetta talking about how he doesn't use any reference. I think he was messing with the interviewer? Anatomy is just to complicated.


Also nice illustration! I liked the thumbnail that was more vertical. Sort of gave it this feeling of a grand kings thrown. I do understand you would have lost focus on what you wanted to achieve.
 
Old 10 October 2012   #22
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