Space Capsule Crash Ground

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Old 04 April 2012   #1
Space Capsule Crash Ground

Hi all, guys and girls

I'm working on a diploma project now, some sci-fi 3d CG movie, photoreal, something close to game cinematics by Blur or Digic for example.

And there is one problem I can't solve right now, hope you can help.

I need to animate an escape pod (capsule) falling on the ground. This is a big and heavy thing, and it should deform the surface a lot. And this is the problem - how to deform a surface, preserving a lot of detail on it?

I tried this method - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CtpyzCtb-0o
But it is not very high quality one, also there are bugs in tp deform modifier.
Another instance of this method is using Vol. Select + Push, that worked, but it is extremely slow, and anyway, does not give the requiered quality, even with displace map.

Then I tried to make it using just an animated displacemap. And there were problems too, that was even slower (32 bit exr animated map... I don't know, I should try with jpegs I think), and the ground did not deform as it should.

I even thought about using fluids like RF or Nayad, but I don't think that it was a good idea...

So... The question is - do you know any other method? Or do you know how to use one of these correctly, to get a believeble result?

Hope you'll help!

Thanks, Michael.

P.S.:
I prefer working in 3ds max, though there is no problem in using any other software for simulation, and then exporting it back to max with pointcache.
 
Old 04 April 2012   #2
I think you'll need to use more than one method, especially if you are going for something very high end, like you referenced.

I would start with something like what you mentioned, the vol select with add to selection, and then do the push / noises / whatever. The extremely high detail you desire wont be coming from this mesh, but many more to come.

Then I would move onto adding actual simulation of surface objects, like rocky surface / broken concrete / tiles, whatever is the surface you are crashing into, and sim those against your base mesh. These can be done quite easily with PF / cloth / reactor , and even better with the PF Toolboxes.

Then I would add particles / rubble / debris, small little elements that are getting kicked up by the destruction of the surface. PF would be great for this.

Additionally I would add smoke / dust that get kicked up behind and around the object. All of these FX Passes are separate elements, and when combined will give your collision detail and nuance. You could even augment this with footage comped in 3D.

All of this is going to run slowly, you will need to be caching what you can, and hiding the others in your viewport, when you need it to run faster. Also you'll want to be rendering these out as separate elements. Very often on my heavy FX scenes, I hardly have anything visible, through the entirety of the workflow. But ways to get this running faster would be to use point cache on top of your base mesh, after you have all of your modifiers working. This will also result in a more reliable render.
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Old 04 April 2012   #3
Originally Posted by TheOnlyAaron: I think you'll need to use more than one method, especially if you are going for something very high end, like you referenced.

I would start with something like what you mentioned, the vol select with add to selection, and then do the push / noises / whatever. The extremely high detail you desire wont be coming from this mesh, but many more to come.

Then I would move onto adding actual simulation of surface objects, like rocky surface / broken concrete / tiles, whatever is the surface you are crashing into, and sim those against your base mesh. These can be done quite easily with PF / cloth / reactor , and even better with the PF Toolboxes.

Then I would add particles / rubble / debris, small little elements that are getting kicked up by the destruction of the surface. PF would be great for this.

Additionally I would add smoke / dust that get kicked up behind and around the object. All of these FX Passes are separate elements, and when combined will give your collision detail and nuance. You could even augment this with footage comped in 3D.

All of this is going to run slowly, you will need to be caching what you can, and hiding the others in your viewport, when you need it to run faster. Also you'll want to be rendering these out as separate elements. Very often on my heavy FX scenes, I hardly have anything visible, through the entirety of the workflow. But ways to get this running faster would be to use point cache on top of your base mesh, after you have all of your modifiers working. This will also result in a more reliable render.


Thanks for reply!

I'm using TP right now, it is even better for this task, that PF
I did made pointcache, yeah, that the way I was thinking...

I just wanted to know, if there is some less PC consuming method to do this, maybe I was doing something wrong.

Thanks again =)
 
Old 05 May 2012   #4
Honestly sometimes a good portion of stuff like this can be done in after effects. In specific check out this tutorial:
http://www.videocopilot.net/tutoria...or_crash_3d_p1/
and this one:
http://www.videocopilot.net/tutorials/3d_crater_p1/

They are made for live action (they also have multiple parts) but you can probably use a lot of the information.

Last edited by Anodai : 05 May 2012 at 04:57 AM.
 
Old 05 May 2012   #5
Originally Posted by Anodai: Honestly sometimes a good portion of stuff like this can be done in after effects. In specific check out this tutorial:
http://www.videocopilot.net/tutoria...or_crash_3d_p1/
and this one:
http://www.videocopilot.net/tutorials/3d_crater_p1/

They are made for live action (they also have multiple parts) but you can probably use a lot of the information.



Actually not only AE was used there.

Thats totaly not what I need and what I mentioned. I was talking specificaly about the 3D ground deformation animation, not about any particle\compositing stuff.
 
Old 05 May 2012   #6
Ah, alright, I thought you were just looking for general advice on the meteor crash.

If you want to do an impact trail, you could try creating a series of blend shapes for the trail and animating them sequentially. You'd have a blend shape for each capsule length section of the trail being deformed and as the capsule hits them you'd use the next blend shape in line. Obviously not a perfect method...

There are probably ways to key individual vertex positions, at least using a plugin, that you could use and manually key the displacement.

3Ds max can do this and this apparently, which could be exactly what you need, depending on the surface the capsule is hitting. Even if it is something not so solid, you could do this as a base and then throw in particles and stuff.
 
Old 05 May 2012   #7
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