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Old 12-07-2005, 04:45 AM   #76
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Maybe there's hope yet then I do think there is a common love of learning among CG artists, especially those who choose to spend there free time pursuing more on forums like this one. I guess my biggest complaint is seeing all the other students on my campus who are totally apathetic towards their education, it's just something to get a degree.
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Old 12-07-2005, 08:40 AM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisWhite
Maybe there's hope yet then I do think there is a common love of learning among CG artists, especially those who choose to spend there free time pursuing more on forums like this one. I guess my biggest complaint is seeing all the other students on my campus who are totally apathetic towards their education, it's just something to get a degree.


Yep it's really frustrating. I wonder how they got onto the course in the first place. It annoys me that they don't share the same enthusiasm, they just do what they are told to do by the lecturers instead of interpreting it in there own way or doing extra work other than what they are told.

Sorry to sound really negative. Not everyone is like this, I hope that when I go to Uni the people there will be more 'into' art rather than it just being a stepping stone like at the college I go to.
 
Old 12-07-2005, 10:56 AM   #78
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I can honestly say that 99% of all the stuff i know, I learned myself. I'm studying grafical design and all I learnd in photoshop was how to start the program, draw a cirkel and fill it with *gasp* a pattern. Thats it. period.
I spend most of my free time surfing the web, absorbing every single bot of information i could find, and i'm glad I did. My "teachers" *cough* expected us to learn ourselfs, and now my whole class is in a state of panic. We are in our last year and guess what? thats right, we have to do an endproject. We don't know what it is yet, but our teachers have told us that it's going to take us everything we got. I used to be laughed at by the "fashion club" (a group of girls with more boobs than brains, if you know what i mean) but now they are running around like the world is coming to an end, and I'm the one laughing ("Ha! Bet you wish you actually drawed with your tablet instead of using it as a foodtray, huh?")
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Old 12-07-2005, 11:49 AM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sanne-chan
My "teachers" *cough* expected us to learn ourselfs


Yup, that's the classic Bauhaus and Montessori methods gone wrong. (and has also gone wrong in the "studiehuis" method). Discovering things on your own, learning to learn independantly IS important, but for some reason teachers in today's schools seem to think that they don't have to teach anything anymore. Wrong!

A large part of the problem is that teachers were never prepared for teaching in this way and the Dutch government is interfering way too much with the teaching methods. The end of the story is that there is hardly any teaching at all.

It may be a good idea to start preparing for the next hurdle: getting jobs as a designer. The CWI will tell you there is no work for designers/illustrators and won't lift a finger to help you.
 
Old 12-07-2005, 12:02 PM   #80
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The classes that opened my eyes were color theory and figure drawing. I think I learned more in those classes than anything. Like I said it is expected imo that students only go to college for the theory part and go into their own path. It is all about motivation. I hang with some friends in school that have very little drawing ability. This kind of sucks sometimes when they say things like. “You can just picture it in your head and draw it” I always end up telling them the reason I can do that is that I draw ever single day. And not just that but I look at tons of ref pictures sometimes for some drawings. We live in the age of information and Google is an amazing resource.


I like Reb’s way of saying it and that it is all about mileage.


I also tell them that I have seen plenty of people with poor levels of drawing skill that in a year become excellent at drawing and painting. I have seen some artist on these forums start out a thread and in a years time the divide of talent is amazing. School did not teach those people how to draw, it was motivation and the will to draw and paint.


I am trying to help my friends out by telling them that the only way is to study on your own. School helps reinforces your skill with theory. Some classes like color theory are great since those are still hard to learn on your own… Or even begin to grasp the concepts. Anatomy is also one of those classes. Sure you can study on your own and buy books but it is really tough. And figure drawing is another part since it mostly pushes theory on how to make things feel weighted and expressive. You learn a lot in school but it is mostly theory.


The old ways of learning art is almost long gone. Except on the internet. What I mean by the old ways is becoming an apprentice of some well known artist and study under them. This happens a lot on the internet with the tutorials you find etc. Sometimes you find some people who help out a lot and you become in way an apprentice of a master. This can also be dangerous. Since the masters are still apprentices sometimes.


I felt I bashed school too much last time so I wanted to clear it up a bit more.
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Old 12-07-2005, 12:38 PM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Margie
Yup, that's the classic Bauhaus and Montessori methods gone wrong. (and has also gone wrong in the "studiehuis" method). Discovering things on your own, learning to learn independantly IS important, but for some reason teachers in today's schools seem to think that they don't have to teach anything anymore. Wrong!

A large part of the problem is that teachers were never prepared for teaching in this way and the Dutch government is interfering way too much with the teaching methods. The end of the story is that there is hardly any teaching at all.

It may be a good idea to start preparing for the next hurdle: getting jobs as a designer. The CWI will tell you there is no work for designers/illustrators and won't lift a finger to help you.


STUDIEHUIS?!? AAAARGH!! SCREAM AND RUN! SCREAM AND RUN!

*shudders*

ontopic: that's another thing I think they should teach us: how to get a job. I'm just trying to keep my eyes open, trying to meet people that can help me when i finally get that @#$#@ diploma this year (and of course, i just try to stay uptodate with new versions of programs and try to do other stuff to "pimp up" my resumé ). I hope that's going to be enough to stay clear of the Ebvil CWI of Doom *shudders again*
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Old 12-07-2005, 04:26 PM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Desp#2/Rog
I hang with some friends in school that have very little drawing ability. This kind of sucks sometimes when they say things like. “You can just picture it in your head and draw it” I always end up telling them the reason I can do that is that I draw ever single day. And not just that but I look at tons of ref pictures sometimes for some drawings. We live in the age of information and Google is an amazing resource.


Same here. I was having a discussion with a friend of mine about this kind of thing. She said she wishes she could draw what was in her head. I asked how long she had been interested in art and explained how ever since I can remember I always drew.

I used to draw cartoons all the time. I would draw animals from photographs and draw pictures of my pets. She said to me that she never did this because when she tryed she could never do it. But that is where motivation comes in. I never drew because I was good, I drew because It was fun, something to do when I was bored. It was practice, the more I pushed myself as I grew up the better I got. You can't give up when it comes to drawing or you'll never learn, you have to practice, and try to find a different approach.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Desp#2/Rog
I am trying to help my friends out by telling them that the only way is to study on your own. School helps reinforces your skill with theory. Some classes like color theory are great since those are still hard to learn on your own… Or even begin to grasp the concepts. Anatomy is also one of those classes. Sure you can study on your own and buy books but it is really tough. And figure drawing is another part since it mostly pushes theory on how to make things feel weighted and expressive. You learn a lot in school but it is mostly theory.


I try to encourage my friends to learn things out for themselves but I don't want to seem big headed or offend them.

A few weeks ago I have found out loads of info on colour theory, I printed it off and stuck it in my sketchbook (giving credit to the original writers) and then interepreted it in my own words. I showed this to my friends talking to them about grayscale, tones that kinda thing but they just laughed at me, I don't think they meant it in a nasty way. I then tryed to talk them through what it meant but they just didn't seem to have the slightest interest in what I was explaining.

I am constantly telling them all the things that they need to understand, not just what the teacher is telling us and they just sit there nodding and agreeing but do nothing about it! drives me crazy and then they complain to me about wishing they could paint on the computer.

(crikey long rant again!! lol sorry)
 
Old 12-07-2005, 05:34 PM   #83
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art for art sake

I attended the local university some time ago and they were always at odds with the different streams of creative development. I, myself have always been drawing as far as I can remember...?4 years old, but the educational institution didn't promote drawing as a critical foundation. I did take plenty of life drawing classes, but my primary was visual communications which focused on type design and layout. There were painting classes offered but they were more abstract, largely being driven by instructors that had no real illustrative foundation. More idealistic than realistic.

Now, I operate independantly as a designer and website developer, which is practical for Edmonton, Alberta Canada, because we don't have a large entertainment industry that is normally associated with the development of the illustrative arts.I do continue to pursue animation and illustration contract work, but it usually pays a lot less than practical corporate work. Although on the side I have an animation short production and a graphic novel in production where I can do what I love to do.

As far as fine art is concerned it does have a place in society to a point, very much secluded to the class couture and not necessarily art for the masses. Those who wish to practice it should be happy consuming Kraft dinner and looking in through bakery windows wondering why they can't afford what others can...I prefer to have my cake and eat it too!
 
Old 12-07-2005, 05:37 PM   #84
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i love kraft dinner!!!

thats why i decided to stop working full time commercially and try to shift focus more to fine art that i dont expect to make any money at. i'm too busy making art now to miss any money i don't make anyways, aside from getting better computer equipment... to me the point is less about making art that has a place in society, than just making the art i want to make without having to please a client. if it finds an audience or venue of any sort, fine arts or otherwise, is not something i can really controll, all i can do is make the art, you know? i'm pretty sure that if i do stuff that i think is cool, some other people will like it, but even if they don't, i do it because i like to do it, not for an audience. i feel like most of the art that winds up actually resonating with people was created that way. often if you start thinking about the audience or trying to please other people and imagining what they might like, i think it dilutes the work..

and THAT is whot i think the old masters were often missing, despite their technical mastery. it was really the commercial art of its day, the feature films or whatever. made on contracts for commercial clients. of course there are legendary stories of battles for creative controll, but the subject matter itself was dictated. i wonder what they would have painted if it didnt have to be for a church. which is why we all love the surrealists so much, right? i mean, 3d art by its very nature is surrealism to the nth degree, even if we never think of it that way.
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Last edited by yenvalmar : 12-07-2005 at 05:45 PM.
 
Old 12-07-2005, 06:32 PM   #85
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You have some good points there yenvalmar
 
Old 12-07-2005, 06:34 PM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yenvalmar
and THAT is whot i think the old masters were often missing, despite their technical mastery. it was really the commercial art of its day, the feature films or whatever. made on contracts for commercial clients.


Depending on how far back you want to go...yes, I think so. The "art for art's sake" idea is fairly new, only about 150 years old. Before that, painters were considered craftsmen and the term "artist" was unknown. Painters worked on commission for kings, nobility, rich merchants and the church. These clients either wanted their portraits painted or something to decorate the churches with. It was the commercial art of that time. In a very real way, these "old masters" were very much the illustrators of their time.
 
Old 12-07-2005, 06:39 PM   #87
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amazing!

i must be living right

look at meats meyer though, perfect example. or chris landreth. there are a couple of guys, who in terms of technical skill, while great, are not any better than a lot of other people on these forums. we know them by name becauset they followed their personal vision, and despite having no real existing venue for their art, they have still gotten it out there and found recognition among an audience. does anyone in the real arts world know who meats is, probably not that many, but who cares he is dooing his thing and its cool. sure there are still very few people and known only amongst a clique of 3d art nerds but hey, if you get to do what you love all day, i'm ok with that.. for now.. muhahah
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Old 12-07-2005, 06:39 PM   #88
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