Weird gimbal issue when linking object [MAX]

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Old 03 March 2012   #1
Weird gimbal issue when linking object [MAX]

I'm working a rig and I noticed something as I was creating point and linking them together

I created 3 points... froze transform ( so far so good) and linked 2 points to the last one. but When I do that the gimbal axis of the 2 points change totally.... X becomes -Z Y becomes X etc... making it impossible to use the wireparameters correctly ( If I take into consideration that X is now the Z axis on the newly linked dummy it wont be affected by the wire paramaters)

WTF!?

I tried creating the points in several angle, not freezing them but whatever I do My axis flip. The only way I managed to fix it is.... awww I forgot how I fixed it.

I've seen this kind of "glitch" before in production as an animator and the rigger didnt knew how it happend.

What I'd like to know is what exactly is causing this? Why is linking 2 points sharing the same gimbal axis together force to change the gimbal axis on one of those.

Last edited by mrfred : 03 March 2012 at 09:01 PM.
 
Old 03 March 2012   #2
It looks like when you are parenting your dummy to the next node up the chain is when you are getting your problem.

The way that 3DS max creates rotations that you can edit in the curve editor is to use an Euler xyz rotation controler. This is maxes way of giving you the curves in your editor the way that will be the cleanest and easiest to edit, but they will not always be perpendicular, and it depends on its parent coordsys.

The rotation controler (if I rember correctly) inherits the z rot from its parent coordsys in the default rotation order. So if you change that objects parent coordsys from world to another object, it is going to inherit it from that.

What you will want to do is freeze your transforms after parenting the heirarchy, to avoid any broken wire params, and you can do something that I do on all of my rigs to make the Gimbal rotations of the node match its local space.

You need a parent node that is aligned to the local space of your objects to maintain the perpendicular axis, so X and Y should be from the objects local, and Z from its Parent space. If the parent coordsys is the same, then you get just what you want.

I just throw a small point helper in there to take care of it, and wrote a simple that will do it for me. All you need to do is select your object and execute the code.

Note: this can be run on multiple objects



for i in 1 to selection.count do
(
	nodePoint = point centermarker:off axistripod:off cross:on Box:on 
	nodePoint.wirecolor = color 169 0 0
	nodePoint.transform = selection[i].transform
	selection[i].parent = nodePoint
)		
 
Old 03 March 2012   #3
I undertstand what you mean but the thing is: When I created the 3 points they all had the same orientation ( they were a copy of each other so they all share the same parameters) once I start linking them thats where the gimbal axis totally flips and freezing transform wont get it back to how its suppose to be.

In ohter words: When I link the points the children doesnt inherit from the the parent axis ( even tho they have the same) but he rather goes on his own and say **** this : i'm gonna do it way my way and flips his gimbal.
 
Old 03 March 2012   #4
When I link the points the children doesnt inherit from the the parent axis ( even tho they have the same)


It should only be inheriting one rotation the Euler Rotation Controller, which is is dependent on your rotation order, the other two should be aligned the the objects local space.

Also you are freezing your transforms after you parent things, correct?
 
Old 03 March 2012   #5
didnt change the axis rotation order
how I freeze transform: Alt right click -> freeze transform

and no matter when I froze the transform before of after linking point I would still had this issue where children would change his gimbal orientation

I also tried to link my parent to another fresh point, didnt work...

The only way I fixed it is by changing the linking order ( even though they shared all the same axis order, gimbal, properties... the only thing that changed was there position in space)

I tried to recreate it but I can't

I'm doing the exact same thing as yesterday... trying to recreate point the same way I did, linked the samy way and still wont recreate the issue gimbals are fine....weird

Starting to think that its one of those "max issue"... didnt try to reboot max yesterday
 
Old 03 March 2012   #6
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