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Old 09-27-2012, 10:42 AM   #1
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Mike Burnett
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Cloudy with a chance of polygons

So a friend of mine makes 3d scans of buildings inside and out. The clip below is a point cloud render (so no polygons at all).

The reason why it appears to have density is that there are over 670 million points in the cloud!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ft2lBlMPrYw&sns=em

My question is, can these point clouds be rasterised into polygons?
 
Old 09-27-2012, 12:44 PM   #2
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amazing... I want one of those scanners for christmas please.

>My question is, can these point clouds be rasterised into polygons

In theory,yes,But in practice that would be a monumental task.And how would you view or render that many polygons? not in c4d. not a cat in hells chance.
The only way you could do that is with highly specialized custom built raytracer. But as far as I know there is not a raytracer on the planet that can manage the amount of addhock polygon data .

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Old 09-27-2012, 01:49 PM   #3
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well I suppose you could use mesh reconstruction tools, afaik, these look at points that share similar values (planar) and builds polygons to match...this usually produces garbage meshes.

Manual reconstruction, from footage, or from still would be the best option for something clean.

No small task, for sure.
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Old 09-27-2012, 06:17 PM   #4
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Wow... that's quite something. It would be interesting to know more.
 
Old 09-27-2012, 07:45 PM   #5
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Old 09-27-2012, 07:55 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by giappone


not for 670 million points he doesn't. it will simply die and so will any other off the shelf solution.


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Old 09-27-2012, 10:12 PM   #7
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Really? we seem to do this with Houdini all the time. Not quite that high but also not far off. No one said it had to be meshes as a single object and frankly there'd be no point or benefit to doing it that way. You select points within bounds and mesh them section by section. I'd imagine other/better apps with meshing functions also have means of selecting and restricting points.

Should also add that our actually Matchmove and mdoeling department get most of their lidar scan data from meshlab where they're converted sections at a time and then we use our own custom polygon reduction system, but that's just polygon reduction which there are plenty of commercial tools for like http://www.atangeo.com/

The logistic problem is treating it like a single environment had to be done as one thing
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Last edited by LucentDreams : 09-27-2012 at 10:19 PM.
 
Old 09-28-2012, 12:09 AM   #8
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>Really? we seem to do this with Houdini all the time.
(houdini 10 help.. )

hes not even talking about rendering, but of rasterising the data set (to triangles) and that is the problem for which i doubt he will find a simple(low cost) solution.I imagine the guys that sell the scanner would have a solution.
State of the art is somethign like VRmesh.Their latest version, has a key improvment : "The triangulation method has been redesigned for handling large datasets in excess of 100 million points with high accuracy and efficiency. . " so could work. but honestly, I doubt it.It will go tits up at 128 , or they would have said "200 million".

The only way is to keep all the scan blocks seperate and never even attempt to merge them.

Id love to be proved wrong , but I dont see any package out there that can deal with that data with onboard tools, including houdini and especially NOT c4d.


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Old 09-28-2012, 01:09 AM   #9
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I wasn't talking about rendering, don't know where you saw or got any mention of rendering form me? I was referring to mesh generation, triangulating, of which there are multiple methods of generating meshes form points in houdini as well.

The Apps we use are Meshlab and GIS for modeling every things and if it is something specific to the FX team they'll do it themselves in houdini As I said you'd never do that City street in one complete mesh, I mean the mesh itself if it could be made that way would be useless for anything. On a typical feature though Paul any and everything that can be captured in Lidar is. Entire multiple city blocks of Boston, entire baseball stadiums etc. The pointcounts are huge but the points are wisely bounded prior to generating volumes.

Heck even a simple example like doing a Naid water simulation is typically too slow as a single bound volume for any sim of decent density so you still mesh in multiple parts and then connect those meshes in other ways post reduction methods etc.

for a Studio that is extremely proprietary, this is one area where we use primarily commercial software. Only proprietary part of that pipeline I know of is our polygon reduction tools which is the last stage before taking meshes either through the pipeline or into Maya for Modelers to remodel when we need quality meshes.
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Old 09-28-2012, 07:05 AM   #10
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Here is a little example video from Pixel Farms PFTrack
to illustrate what Kai is talking about.
They use a proxy system to work with the 416 million points in this Lidar scan.

http://vimeo.com/45200131#at=0
 
Old 09-28-2012, 07:51 AM   #11
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>My question is, can these point clouds be rasterised into polygons?

in one foul swoop, no. But, in lots of smaller chunks, see above.


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Old 10-11-2012, 09:46 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tapaul
>Really? we seem to do this with Houdini all the time.
(houdini 10 help.. )

hes not even talking about rendering, but of rasterising the data set (to triangles) and that is the problem for which i doubt he will find a simple(low cost) solution.I imagine the guys that sell the scanner would have a solution.
State of the art is somethign like VRmesh.Their latest version, has a key improvment : "The triangulation method has been redesigned for handling large datasets in excess of 100 million points with high accuracy and efficiency. . " so could work. but honestly, I doubt it.It will go tits up at 128 , or they would have said "200 million".

The only way is to keep all the scan blocks seperate and never even attempt to merge them.

Id love to be proved wrong , but I dont see any package out there that can deal with that data with onboard tools, including houdini and especially NOT c4d.

regards
Paul Everett
Tools4D.com




VRMesh provides an Index and Attach method for importing a large point cloud file (*.ptx, *.asc, *.las). The large point cloud is split into small blocks (around one million points per block) in the indexed file.

After attaching the indexed file into VRMesh, it can directly convert this large point clouds into meshes, decimate meshes, and finally seam all bocks together into a final model.

Please feel free to contact us (support@vrmesh.com) if help is needed, or you have suggestions.

Last edited by nicedays : 10-11-2012 at 09:54 PM.
 
Old 10-11-2012, 09:46 PM   #13
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