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Old 05-09-2014, 01:55 AM   #1
eric318
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Editing after Rigging

Hi there,

I have hired a company to create a 3D animated film for me. I have requested some small edits after the characters have already been rigged. The edits are generally just changing the eye and head size. Is such a request equivalent to asking them to do the characters all over again from scratch? I need to know so i can decide what to pay them for making these edits.

If anyone can help me here i would be very thankful.

Eric
 
Old 05-13-2014, 12:55 AM   #2
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Don't ask us... talk to your supplier and read your contract for what it says about re-work or revisions.

At the very least they will have to re-render all those scenes again that feature the wrong eyes and head.
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Old 05-13-2014, 01:21 AM   #3
eric318
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CGIPadawan
Don't ask us... talk to your supplier and read your contract for what it says about re-work or revisions.

At the very least they will have to re-render all those scenes again that feature the wrong eyes and head.


Thanks for addressing my question.
Unfortunately there is nothing in the contract regarding re-work after the job is completed.
The reason i am asking this question is because we think that the supplier is not being honest by asking us to pay the same price as we paid for both the modeling and rigging of the characters. What i really would like to know is whether or not doing editing the character after it is already rigged means that you will need to re-rig and remodel the character again or just re-rig but not remodel or just re-rig the part of the body that is being edited.
 
Old 05-13-2014, 05:05 AM   #4
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Making changes to a model after it's rigged tends to be hard. Just how hard varies vastly based on a whole ton of factors, and even in the worst case scenario isn't as hard as having to redo the model and rig from scratch, but it's definitely not trivial, either.
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Old 05-13-2014, 06:07 AM   #5
eric318
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What about just recoloring the skin?
 
Old 05-13-2014, 08:13 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eric318
What about just recoloring the skin?


That will need at least new textures, or editing the existing skin textures. New shaders also perhaps, depending on what kind of film it is (ie cartoon, photorealistic etc.). If the movie is already rendered, any frames with all those changes will then need to be rendered again.
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Old 05-13-2014, 08:24 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dillster
That will need at least new textures, or editing the existing skin textures. New shaders also perhaps, depending on what kind of film it is (ie cartoon, photorealistic etc.). .

So just to clarify, there will be no re-rigging. Is this correct?
 
Old 05-13-2014, 09:29 AM   #8
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It would depend on their software. In max you can turn off the 'always deform' feature in the skin modifier and then change the mesh before reactivating that feature again. I suppose you should pay for alterations or corrections to the mesh, but it shouldn't be a question of re rigging.
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Last edited by Kanga : 05-13-2014 at 09:34 AM.
 
Old 05-13-2014, 04:39 PM   #9
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I think the biggest problem here (for your employers) is just that people try to avoiding having bad habit. Bad habit is when client changes something at the end of the project.
Changing a model, after is fully rigged can be done, but is somehow risky... it can lead to a lots of future problems... so I understand them completely.
It is always a best options (most clean) to carefully re-rig the model if it needs to be changed.

What if the client (you) wants another change?!
And another...
and another...
(client usually said: if you did one change, why you can't do the second?)

It's a woman... no... it's a horse... no... half woman-half horse:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?featu...qLBXIX2Mk#t=232

Long story short: I think you should listen to them, and don't change it if it absolutely necessary. If you insist on change, then let them to re-rig the model as best as they can.
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Last edited by d4rk3lf : 05-13-2014 at 11:55 PM.
 
Old 05-14-2014, 09:27 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eric318
The edits are generally just changing the eye and head size. Is such a request equivalent to asking them to do the characters all over again from scratch?

Depending on how extensive the change and how important quality is, it's not far off; it can be roughly equivalent to asking them to re-do the head from scratch. Depending on relative complexity of body vs. head, it could be equivalent to up to 70% of asking them to re-do the character.

If the proportion change is minimal and doesn't require adjusting the details in a sculpt, the modeling and texturing part would need only slight adjustments. This isn't the complicated part. Otherwise it's a lot more work, as not only the sculpt would have to be adjusted and re-baked, but also textures would have to be modified, and that's if you're willing to leave UVs intact and leave the stretching and resolution discrepancies. If UVs would need to be re-done, then nearly all textures will need to be redone.

Any such a change will most likely require re-doing most of the facial setup of the rig. If it is bone-based, the bones will have to be rearranged and their ranges adjusted, perhaps skinning would need to be adjusted too, if corrective morphs are involved, they would need to be re-done. If instead of bone-based facial setup, it is blend-shape driven, all of those morphs or blend shapes will need to be re-done.

For short - yes, it can be a lot of work to do it properly. And not doing it properly could mean just postponing the problems until a later stage, where the animators and lighting/rendering will have to work more to cover up the resulting problems.
 
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