CGTalk > Technical > Technical and Hardware
Login register
Thread Closed share thread « Previous Thread | Next Thread »
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 03-26-2013, 11:48 PM   #16
ThE_JacO
MOBerator-X
 
ThE_JacO's Avatar
CGSociety Member
portfolio
Raffaele Fragapane
That Creature Dude
Animal Logic
Sydney, Australia
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 10,954
It depends at what tasks.
Some you could see something close to time and half, others you will hardly notice the difference.

Whether the 1k per CPU difference is justified, as for other things before, depends on many factors.

If your CPUless blade cost is (for the sake of argument) 800$, and you have no space or racking or network limits, it's not worth it, because a configured blade costs 5k with the 90s, and 3k with the 50s, making an additional blade better ROI.

If a CPUless blade costs you 2k, and you are license capped with some expensive software that brings in license per CPU as a factor, adding, say, 500$ per CPU, then the 90s will be better value for money.

If you have licenses in excess, space in excess, cooling in excess, and power doesn't cost a fortune, then it boils down to naked blade costs, and in that case many cheaper CPUs will usually win over few top of the line ones you pay a ridiculous premium for.

Is it worth the money? It depends, as I said before a farm is about balancing all things out from a purely logistical and financial point of view, if someone who doesn't know your studio and constraints gives you a straight yes or no answer to that question, don't trust them
__________________
"As an online CG discussion grows longer, the probability of the topic being shifted to subsidies approaches 1"

Free Maya Nodes
 
Old 03-27-2013, 01:24 AM   #17
sentry66
Expert
 
sentry66's Avatar
portfolio
node crazy
USA
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 2,039
A a xeon 2690 is at most 35% faster than 2650 at single-threaded tasks and at most 45% faster at multithreaded tasks. In the real world though, performance doesn't scale perfectly linearly and will likely be lower than what I just said.

Don't compare CPU price vs CPU price. Compare system price vs system price

Last edited by sentry66 : 03-27-2013 at 01:32 AM.
 
Old 03-28-2013, 01:51 PM   #18
okmijun
Lord of the posts
 
okmijun's Avatar
portfolio
Zdravko Barisic
Architect
Belgrade, Serbia
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 524
Hm? Did you think about pure i7-2600k/ - 3820/ 3770/3930k CPUs?
They have THE BEST money/ speed ratio....
__________________
http://trideval.blogspot.com/
 
Old 04-02-2013, 03:03 AM   #19
olson
Houdini|Python|Linux
portfolio
Luke Olson
Dallas, USA
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,912
Quote:
Originally Posted by okmijun
Hm? Did you think about pure i7-2600k/ - 3820/ 3770/3930k CPUs?
They have THE BEST money/ speed ratio....


Only if you're not using an expensive renderer (for example Renderman). Doesn't make sense to spend $2,000 per render license and put it on a $800 machine because you run up a huge bill in licenses. Since in this case there are 10 complimentary licenses (according to the OP) the single processor nodes would be a good bang for the buck.
__________________
http://www.whenpicsfly.com
 
Old 04-02-2013, 05:00 AM   #20
Panupat
Expert
 
Panupat's Avatar
portfolio
Panupat Chong
Thailand
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,942
Do each node need full Maya license if I'm doing primarily Maya batch? Is there a cheaper license for render node?
 
Old 04-02-2013, 07:40 AM   #21
ThE_JacO
MOBerator-X
 
ThE_JacO's Avatar
CGSociety Member
portfolio
Raffaele Fragapane
That Creature Dude
Animal Logic
Sydney, Australia
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 10,954
This is all stuff you can find on AD's website, or from your reseller.
From their doco for 2013 (and AFAIK it hasn't changed for 2014) assuming you mean MRay:
Quote:
Network rendering using the render command line utility
Each Maya license allows you to render in Maya interactively on one machine and run batch rendering on five machines. You can therefore perform mental ray for Maya rendering on up to 6 machines.


Other engines will be a different deal, and how maya seats are used is up to how things are set-up over there.
__________________
"As an online CG discussion grows longer, the probability of the topic being shifted to subsidies approaches 1"

Free Maya Nodes
 
Old 04-02-2013, 08:00 PM   #22
Panupat
Expert
 
Panupat's Avatar
portfolio
Panupat Chong
Thailand
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,942
Thanks Jaco. I guess the 5 batch machine also applies to Vray. 1 Vray every 10 nodes, 1 Maya every 5 nodes. Doesn't sound too bad.

Including the software price, building 16x3930k actually comes really close to an 8 blade twin Xeon 2660. Now it's just a matter of space I guess :O I have this impression that Xeon will probably have longer life-span than I7 with more endurance, we might go that route for longevity.
 
Old 04-02-2013, 08:26 PM   #23
sentry66
Expert
 
sentry66's Avatar
portfolio
node crazy
USA
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 2,039
how does the batch vray licensing work anyway?

It still needs maya to be installed in some form right?

I'm just trying to figure out if you want say 20 render nodes and have 2 vray batch licenses so you can render on 20 computers, do you need 4 maya batch licences still, or can you render on all 20 machines with 2 vray licenses with just 1 maya batch license?

Do you need to pay for a full suite of maya batch licenses regardless of rendering engine?

Last edited by sentry66 : 04-03-2013 at 02:01 AM.
 
Old 04-03-2013, 01:20 AM   #24
Panupat
Expert
 
Panupat's Avatar
portfolio
Panupat Chong
Thailand
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,942
That's my guess. 4 Maya license and 2 Vray license for 20 nodes (plus their workstations counter part.) We might already have that covered, I don't think we're using any batch license right now.
 
Old 04-03-2013, 02:03 AM   #25
sentry66
Expert
 
sentry66's Avatar
portfolio
node crazy
USA
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 2,039
damn, that was the major reason I was considering vray - i thought Vray render licenses would be cheaper than having to pay such a high premium to get more maya MR licenses.

I guess we're screwed paying for multiple maya batch renderers either way.
 
Old 04-03-2013, 03:22 AM   #26
ThE_JacO
MOBerator-X
 
ThE_JacO's Avatar
CGSociety Member
portfolio
Raffaele Fragapane
That Creature Dude
Animal Logic
Sydney, Australia
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 10,954
When you render on a farm (I don't know vray in the specific) you usually do so with interim files and referencing correlated to the rendering engine.
ASS for Arnold, RIB for RMan engines, mi for MRay and so on.2

If VRay has a container file, you don't need batch seats for anything other than generating them. If it doesn't, well kinda sucks.

@Panupat
Consider depleting your license pool. That might mean 6 dual Xeons and 6 single CPU units (for the sake of example) will already be covered, and, assuming they will cost the same, will give you a better coverage of single CPU tasks (again, assuming you have any).
Just some food for thought.

Also, check that licensing isn't per CPU with whatever secondary software you use, because in that case the 8 xeons will still count as 16 nodes.
__________________
"As an online CG discussion grows longer, the probability of the topic being shifted to subsidies approaches 1"

Free Maya Nodes
 
Old 04-03-2013, 04:41 AM   #27
olson
Houdini|Python|Linux
portfolio
Luke Olson
Dallas, USA
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,912
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThE_JacO
When you render on a farm (I don't know vray in the specific) you usually do so with interim files and referencing correlated to the rendering engine.
ASS for Arnold, RIB for RMan engines, mi for MRay and so on.2

If VRay has a container file, you don't need batch seats for anything other than generating them. If it doesn't, well kinda sucks.


V-Ray can render from an archive (similar to RIB, IFD, MI, etc.). The archive for V-Ray is called vrscene and the officially supported applications like Maya can export them. This means you don't need a Maya license for every render node but keep in mind it will take time to export the vrscene prior to the render instead of just submitting the Maya scene file to the render farm. Additional V-Ray licenses can be purchased for rendering, they're something like $100 each if you buy a lot of them at once (20+), or if you buy just one or two they are like $500 each. When purchased in bulk they're a pretty good deal.
__________________
http://www.whenpicsfly.com
 
Old 04-03-2013, 05:26 AM   #28
Panupat
Expert
 
Panupat's Avatar
portfolio
Panupat Chong
Thailand
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,942
Quote:
Originally Posted by olson
Additional V-Ray licenses can be purchased for rendering, they're something like $100 each if you buy a lot of them at once (20+), or if you buy just one or two they are like $500 each. When purchased in bulk they're a pretty good deal.

Great information, thanks for sharing. Still have to discuss with the pipeline team if we can come up with vrscene workflow.

Btw, one of the resellers confirmed to me that Vray has no CPU limit per node
Code:
We are checking the price and get back to you soon. List price is around US$1400.00 per license with USB dongle. The connection is ONE Master can link with 10-slave to do rendering, there are totally 11 nodes. No. of CPU does not be limited per computer.

That's from Hongkong resellers... even just 1 license, the price + plane ticket is still cheaper than buying from Thai reseller locally. I might just do that.
 
Old 04-03-2013, 05:47 AM   #29
ThE_JacO
MOBerator-X
 
ThE_JacO's Avatar
CGSociety Member
portfolio
Raffaele Fragapane
That Creature Dude
Animal Logic
Sydney, Australia
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 10,954
Quote:
Originally Posted by olson
V-Ray can render from an archive (similar to RIB, IFD, MI, etc.). The archive for V-Ray is called vrscene and the officially supported applications like Maya can export them. This means you don't need a Maya license for every render node but keep in mind it will take time to export the vrscene prior to the render instead of just submitting the Maya scene file to the render farm.

There you go, problem solved

And yes, you might pay an overhead in time taken to write and read and transfer those files, and one in online storage for the life of the rendering files (and if you're smart and have a decent load balancing you'll pay the price for those files to be distributed to the blades too), but except for very rare cases (client and engine have truly aligned scene data, which I doubt is the case for maya and VRay) you normally get your money back in ease of management, peace of mind, lower memory footprint, and of course one less licensing headache.
__________________
"As an online CG discussion grows longer, the probability of the topic being shifted to subsidies approaches 1"

Free Maya Nodes
 
Old 04-03-2013, 05:47 AM   #30
CGTalk Moderation
Lord of the posts
CGTalk Forum Leader
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 1,066,481
Thread automatically closed

This thread has been automatically closed as it remained inactive for 12 months. If you wish to continue the discussion, please create a new thread in the appropriate forum.
__________________
CGTalk Policy/Legalities
Note that as CGTalk Members, you agree to the terms and conditions of using this website.
 
Thread Closed share thread


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
CGSociety
Society of Digital Artists
www.cgsociety.org

Powered by vBulletin
Copyright 2000 - 2006,
Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Minimize Ads
Forum Jump
Miscellaneous

All times are GMT. The time now is 12:15 PM.


Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.