Experience w/C4D Hair System

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  4 Weeks Ago
Originally Posted by IceCaveMan: Nice work, Rectro! Cheats are awesome. I wish it were as easy to cheat it in Octane. Interesting observation about clones.
Does not Octane still use C4D hair material for styling, colour when using with Octane?
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C4D R19 Studio, MODO 902, Zbrush 2018, Unfold3D 9,Marvelous Designer 7, Keyshot 6 pro.
 
  4 Weeks Ago
Originally Posted by Rectro: Does not Octane still use C4D hair material for styling, colour when using with Octane?
Octane relies on the c4d hair material for many attributes-- like thickness, kink, etc. And it will pass base color information. But unless you add an Octane material on top--you get none of Octane's material attributes -- so it's 100% diffuse...no reflectivity or spec.

The official guidance from Otoy is to overlay an Octane material on top of the hair object (leaving the c4d mat to do it's role).
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C4D R19 Studio, MODO 902, VRAY, Octane, Cycles. PC/Mac.
 
  4 Weeks Ago
Originally Posted by IceCaveMan: Octane relies on the c4d hair material for many attributes-- like thickness, kink, etc. And it will pass base color information. But unless you add an Octane material on top--you get none of Octane's material attributes -- so it's 100% diffuse...no reflectivity or spec.

The official guidance from Otoy is to overlay an Octane material on top of the hair object (leaving the c4d mat to do it's role).
Sounds like it works the same as Vray then.

Dan
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C4D R19 Studio, MODO 902, Zbrush 2018, Unfold3D 9,Marvelous Designer 7, Keyshot 6 pro.
 
  4 Weeks Ago
Originally Posted by Rectro: Sounds like it works the same as Vray then.

Dan

I'm curious. The render you posted above...was that standard render...or VRAY? If VRAY...what were your render times like?

I have VRAY as well as Octane. Don't use it much these days. But i find that with a lot of hairs the preparation time Octane takes to convert to geometry really does slow things down. I've had crashes too. I have read (and noticed myself) that Octane isn't nearly as fast...say as Redshift...at processing mesh data before handing off for rendering.* This hasn't impacted my work previously, but is an issue w/hair.

*Octane 4 promises to do data handling far faster...and handle out-of-core geo.
__________________
C4D R19 Studio, MODO 902, VRAY, Octane, Cycles. PC/Mac.

Last edited by IceCaveMan : 4 Weeks Ago at 06:57 AM.
 
  4 Weeks Ago
While overall the generation of the hairs is single threaded.they were optimized so if you have multiple hair objects the can each generate hairs from guides on separate cores. Instead of a single hair object for a whole head of hair, try setting up based on parts or ponytail etc to see a substantially better use of multiple cores.
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Quote: "Until you do what you believe in, how do you know whether you believe in it or not?" -Leo Tolstoy
Kai Pedersen
 
  4 Weeks Ago
Originally Posted by LucentDreams: While overall the generation of the hairs is single threaded.they were optimized so if you have multiple hair objects the can each generate hairs from guides on separate cores. Instead of a single hair object for a whole head of hair, try setting up based on parts or ponytail etc to see a substantially better use of multiple cores.
Yes Kai...good counsel. I didn't know it would spawn a processor per object. That's cool. On the character I've been working on I already had scalp, mustache, beard, eyebrows as separate hair objects. It was just easier to do it that way and one can turn off hair objects while configuring/grooming other parts.
__________________
C4D R19 Studio, MODO 902, VRAY, Octane, Cycles. PC/Mac.
 
  4 Weeks Ago
Originally Posted by IceCaveMan: I'm curious. The render you posted above...was that standard render...or VRAY? If VRAY...what were your render times like?

I have VRAY as well as Octane. Don't use it much these days. But i find that with a lot of hairs the preparation time Octane takes to convert to geometry really does slow things down. I've had crashes too. I have read (and noticed myself) that Octane isn't nearly as fast...say as Redshift...at processing mesh data before handing off for rendering.* This hasn't impacted my work previously, but is an issue w/hair.

*Octane 4 promises to do data handling far faster...and handle out-of-core geo.
These are standard rendered only.† Il dig the file up and share it.

Dan
__________________
C4D R19 Studio, MODO 902, Zbrush 2018, Unfold3D 9,Marvelous Designer 7, Keyshot 6 pro.
 
  4 Weeks Ago
Originally Posted by LucentDreams: While overall the generation of the hairs is single threaded.they were optimized so if you have multiple hair objects the can each generate hairs from guides on separate cores. Instead of a single hair object for a whole head of hair, try setting up based on parts or ponytail etc to see a substantially better use of multiple cores.

Actually... I was testing this earlier because I remember the splitting hair object trick; however, in my tests it only made things worse. I tested a sphere with 1 million hairs vs 4 hair objects on a sphere with 250,000 hairs each. The single hair object took 30 seconds, the 4 smaller hair objects took 150 seconds.

So, possibly this trick no longer holds true. Additionally during shadow calculation and rendering, the cpu is at 100%, the only single threaded parts are when c4d spends a few seconds applying frizz, kink, curl etc.
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Matthew O'Neill
www.3dfluff.com
 
  3 Weeks Ago
Since R16 Iíve found the hair system with the Standard renderer unusable for long hair.

This is a render from the 'Hairstyle Woman.c4d' R19 Content Browser project. The renderer was changed to Standard
and shadows were turned off for the lights. Renders were done at the default 850 x 850 project resolution on an i7-5820K.



I also did some tests in R19 with the same project using different image resolutions and bucket sizes:
Bucket size Automatic (64 x 64)
Image 600 x 600, 4m 21s
Image 850 x 850, 3m 13s
-----------------------------------
Bucket size 8 x 8
Image 600 x 600, 1m 33s
Image 850 x 850, 1m 35s

For some reason at the 64 x 64 bucket size the render takes longer at the lower resolution.

Multipass rendering for hair was also broken in R16 and still doesnít work in R19.

Last edited by Darter : 3 Weeks Ago at 02:16 AM.
 
  3 Weeks Ago
Originally Posted by Rectro: These are standard rendered only.† Il dig the file up and share it.

Dan
I'd like to use it for some baseline tests. thnx
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C4D R19 Studio, MODO 902, VRAY, Octane, Cycles. PC/Mac.
 
  3 Weeks Ago
I've only had about 15 minutes to play w/hair since my Thursday.†

Here is what I'm exploring:

1. I got a recommendation to try the new Octane metal for a material. It did product a more compelling result when combined with an HDRI. But the combo with HDRI and hundreds of thousands of hairs brought Octane to it's knees as I've rarely seen. That's not workable for me and this 'just-for-me' project.†

2. A glossy material overlaid on the c4d hair mat-- with HDRI-- left me unenthused.

3. †Next I'm going to play with a mix material
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C4D R19 Studio, MODO 902, VRAY, Octane, Cycles. PC/Mac.
 
  3 Weeks Ago
Originally Posted by NWoolridge: Thought I'd pop in with a quick test from Arnold. Its hair shader is physically based, and designed to make human hair (i.e. a simple melanin control to produce everything from blonde to black hair). It makes it a little more challenging to make non-human hair, but it can be done...
I missed seeing this post earlier. Those highlights are looking quite nice.

Hair is one area Octane falls short. Redshift, VRAY and Arnold have hair shaders--Octane doesn't. And Octane's conversion process is slow.
__________________
C4D R19 Studio, MODO 902, VRAY, Octane, Cycles. PC/Mac.

Last edited by IceCaveMan : 3 Weeks Ago at 06:07 PM.
 
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