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Old 05-16-2013, 12:44 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trancerobot
I sense elitism in this thread. Here you are (some of you anyway), master artists who do art for a living with the best cg tools money can buy, went to the best schools, got the best jobs... and you are looking down on someone who's managed to get recognition despite not taking the path in life that you took.

Maybe there's a little jealousy involved too.

Art-wise, I think it's great. If you really get down to it, it's on par with what's shown in the galleries anyway. People do care about the medium he chose, but the fact is - if it wasn't worthy on its own no one could care.

Not every artist is a 100k earning prodigy working for a major Hollywood or AAA game studio, but that doesn't mean they are undeserving of respect.


Considering this comment is at least partly aimed at me, since I wasn't all ponies and rainbows about the artwork - ummm, thanks for the assumptions, but I grew up in the ass end of Africa where there were no fancy CG schools, and I had to work my arse off to get to where I am, so don't act like we have it easy and have breezed our way through life. My "path in life" was one of damn hard grafting, just like this guy.

Quote:
People do care about the medium he chose, but the fact is - if it wasn't worthy on its own no one could care.


But it's not worthy on its own. If this was just some guy making those paintings with paint, nobody would care. Nobody. The only reason this guy has gotten any recognition is because he made the images in Excel. How can you possibly deny that?
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Old 05-16-2013, 12:46 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by Octavarium
There is this motto between Jazz musicians when playing improvisations that says "mean what you play".


Heh, reminds me of the old joke 'once is a mistake, twice is Jazz', ie keep a straight face and play the mistake again as if you meant it and the audience will assume you did it deliberately the first time. I know there's a longer version of that quote but that's my favorite version.

Absolutely though, if the audience gets what you were going for then that's a great way to measure the success of a piece. Although it's far from the only way..

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Last edited by Horganovski : 05-16-2013 at 12:49 AM.
 
Old 05-16-2013, 01:12 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leigh
But the White Stripes have great tunes



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Old 05-16-2013, 03:58 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leigh
But the White Stripes have great tunes


Yeah! Seven Nation Army is awesome!!

Getting to the topic, I kinda respect these kind of art because I too follow the 'journey instead of destination thing', but only if the end result is 'worthy enough'.

Using excel to generate such art is awesome. But to use excel to generate an art that look like a 6 year old drawing with ms paint, is not, even if you said "but.. but... EXCEL!"

I'm a fan of 4K intro, 64K intro, chiptune music (even of this age, and not necessarily of hubbard generation), and I know the limitation. But if the result is interesting, the limitation makes it even more awesome. You cannot just throw up garbage tune and said "but.. but.. sid chip!".

I guess this is where synergy where sum is more than the parts plays out. This is on the same token I respect certain "simplistic" art and trash some others. You don't just jump into paint can and stomp on a canvas and "but.. but.. abstract!" me with your result, but I've seen a lot of awesome ink painting (by that, just color black on white canvas). The one titled "Snow" if I remember correctly was awesome. But of course, some would complain "so you only know how to use the color black? Do you have color mixing skills?".

My 2 cent.
 
Old 05-16-2013, 08:19 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leigh
Considering this comment is at least partly aimed at me, since I wasn't all ponies and rainbows about the artwork - ummm, thanks for the assumptions, but I grew up in the ass end of Africa where there were no fancy CG schools, and I had to work my arse off to get to where I am, so don't act like we have it easy and have breezed our way through life. My "path in life" was one of damn hard grafting, just like this guy.


I didn't exactly forget, but like you said, it wasn't entirely aimed at you. It's more of a rant against the mentality that the only art worth something is the kind of work you live and breathe. All I ask is that you look outside of yourself and your environment.

Quote:
But it's not worthy on its own. If this was just some guy making those paintings with paint, nobody would care. Nobody. The only reason this guy has gotten any recognition is because he made the images in Excel. How can you possibly deny that?


Go to your local gallery, see for yourself. Art is not all about hyper realistic CG monsters and big budget Hollywood environments - circusboy earlier mentioned that it in line with the Japanese style anyway, which is correct. I totally deny your assertion that Excel is the only reason he has gotten any recognition.
 
Old 05-16-2013, 08:56 AM   #21
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Using new medium is only way to get attention in todays (internet) world where we are bombed with zillions of informations per hour and actual dog shit is considered high form of art
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Old 05-16-2013, 11:17 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leigh
I feel the same way as you. And people can go ahead and say we have "sour grapes" as the poster after you suggested, but I think it's silly to go out of your way to work in a medium that's not designed to do something, produce what's frankly a kinda mediocre result, and then be praised because of the fact that he did it in such a difficult way. The end result, regardless of how he did it, is still pretty meh. The work isn't bad, but it's also not particularly good either. It's like those inoffensive, insipid paintings you see in hotel rooms, which always feel more functional than expressive.

An image should be judged on the merits of how it actually looks, not how it was made.


Yeah, it's probably far from amazing, but it amazed me that he did use Excel. Nothing more but nothing less either. Making an in-depth discussion about art from it is probably a bit out of scope imo.
His willingness to do something creative in a different way than usual is enough for me (as a designer) to give him some credit.
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Old 05-16-2013, 12:24 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trancerobot
I didn't exactly forget, but like you said, it wasn't entirely aimed at you. It's more of a rant against the mentality that the only art worth something is the kind of work you live and breathe


Quote:
Go to your local gallery, see for yourself. Art is not all about hyper realistic CG monsters and big budget Hollywood environments - circusboy earlier mentioned that it in line with the Japanese style anyway, which is correct. I totally deny your assertion that Excel is the only reason he has gotten any recognition.


For a regular poster who has been here a long time, I'm surprised to hear you saying this stuff to me. I've been pretty vocal over the years about my personal dislike of "hyper realistic CG monsters" and Hollywood work. What I do for a living has nothing to do with my personal taste. Do you know who my favourite artist of all time is? Turner. His work is about as far removed from the kind of work that I do as you can get. I love many forms and types of art, and I regularly attend gallery exhibitions of everything from paintings to sculpture to photography,so my perspective here is far from narrow.

I honestly can't see how you can continue to deny that Excel is the only reason we are reading about this guy. There must be thousands of other artists out there producing similar looking work who we will ever hear about because they're using traditional methods.
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Old 05-16-2013, 01:27 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leigh
There must be thousands of other artists out there producing similar looking work who we will ever hear about because they're using traditional methods.

That's my line. Like I said, no one here will have the answer to whether it is art or not, but no one can deny the fact that there is nothing amazing about the looks of it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by trancerobot
and you are looking down on someone who's managed to get recognition despite not taking the path in life that you took.

Maybe there's a little jealousy involved too.

This, I think, is a very narrow and poor view for someone within the world of arts to have. This is a healthy and productive discussion about artistic concepts. It's meant to make people question their precepts, not measure their skill. Assuming such an extreme point of view based on someone's opposing ideas about something is a very dark and dishonest approach to art theory and critique. I think you somehow misjudged what you read for I believe that creative artistic people tend to be more open-minded than this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by trancerobot
Art is not all about hyper realistic CG monsters and big budget Hollywood environments

Of course it isn't. Art was around way before Hollywood and computers were even ideas. (not to say that CGI may very well be one of the most recent additions to the “what is art?” portfolio) But just because the line between what is and what isn't art is a blurry one, it doesn’t mean that we shall ignore it and assume everything to be artistic. This is what started this healthy discussion on the first place.
 
Old 05-16-2013, 01:31 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AJ1
Agreed. Reminds me of those people who build cites out of toothpicks. The work pails in comparison to what a master wood carver might be able to achieve.
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_uoYQ_HwIR...tyBSept2010.jpg

Although some people manage to make really interesting forms with them that really work, just making big boxy skyscrapers from toothpicks seems like a massive waste of time. But maybe that's why were drawn to such things? I've seen a few news stories about these things, and the central theme seems to be "why would someone spend so much time on this?".

Here is a nice sculpture where the artist did a nice job with the materials given:
http://sparkjam.net/wp-content/uplo...h-the-bay-5.jpg

That guys graphic design work looks pretty good, but its nothing out of this world. The fact that it was made in excel by an old man is why it stands out for sure.

-AJ


I agree with you (and Leigh) Excel-and the novelty of using it to make his art-is the reason why this guy is getting some international recognition.

But I am not convinced about the toothpick comparison. The term 'arts and crafts' comes to mind. The stuff with toothpicks stops at 'crafts' for me.

And I still think his inspiration is traditional Japanese art eshtetics than say cheesy Hallmark cards. That being said -would I put it in my living room? Nah. I don't love it myself. I just think its more defendable than some of you I guess.
 
Old 05-16-2013, 03:46 PM   #26
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I think some of you are mixing mediums in this case. I saw 'painting' being thrown around. Considering the technique he is using in Excel, vector based cutouts, this is more comparable to the screening technique where the artisan cuts and crafts each piece, made of wood or paper, and then glues it to the screen to create the picture rather than an actual painting. I'm sure it has a proper name other than a mosaic but 5 mins. in Google didn't find it.

When I considered it in that light his creations look superior to what is usually produced with the physical medium. Sort of like comparing the detail you can get in ZBrush vs. Wood or Clay. I have a feeling he was trained at some point in his life in this artform and now he just found a way that is easier for him to make it. You may not like the look of them, the more I examine the 1st picture the less I like it, but its still a good job. It would probably help to see some better shots than what Kotaku put up but I really like the bit with the hummingbird. Is it art? I don't care, I just try to enjoy looking at them.
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Old 05-16-2013, 03:59 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Octavarium
This, I think, is a very narrow and poor view for someone within the world of arts to have. This is a healthy and productive discussion about artistic concepts. It's meant to make people question their precepts, not measure their skill. Assuming such an extreme point of view based on someone's opposing ideas about something is a very dark and dishonest approach to art theory and critique. I think you somehow misjudged what you read for I believe that creative artistic people tend to be more open-minded than this.


That was low of me I'll admit. The point I was trying to make could have done without it.

Quote:
Of course it isn't. Art was around way before Hollywood and computers were even ideas. (not to say that CGI may very well be one of the most recent additions to the “what is art?” portfolio) But just because the line between what is and what isn't art is a blurry one, it doesn’t mean that we shall ignore it and assume everything to be artistic. This is what started this healthy discussion on the first place.


Alright, I respect your assertion that this isn't artistic, but I'll retain my opinion that it is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by leigh
For a regular poster who has been here a long time, I'm surprised to hear you saying this stuff to me. I've been pretty vocal over the years about my personal dislike of "hyper realistic CG monsters" and Hollywood work. What I do for a living has nothing to do with my personal taste. Do you know who my favourite artist of all time is? Turner. His work is about as far removed from the kind of work that I do as you can get. I love many forms and types of art, and I regularly attend gallery exhibitions of everything from paintings to sculpture to photography,so my perspective here is far from narrow.

I honestly can't see how you can continue to deny that Excel is the only reason we are reading about this guy. There must be thousands of other artists out there producing similar looking work who we will ever hear about because they're using traditional methods.


Well, as someone who did do a lot of creature models I figured I could make that critique without hurting someones feelings. I actually forgot your stance on it, and again, my statements were not meant to be taken as direct attacks against you, but rather a perceived (maybe mistaken) group sentiment.

In any case, I'm sorry. I only wanted to make a point.

Maybe my critique wasn't as even keeled as it could have been. I only like some of the work myself - the mountain landscape and the bird - the title image is rather horrific. At the same time though, I felt it necessary to defend the work. I can't look down on the guy and say that he doesn't deserve what he's managed simply because there are others like him who did the same thing and failed. That's just my opinion though. We are of course free to disagree.
 
Old 05-16-2013, 05:31 PM   #28
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I appreciate your respect. It happens to let oneself go when trying to prove a point.

Anyways, things might be getting a bit out of proportion considering the work in question. Which is ironic, since the amount of visibility given to it was the root of the discussion in the first place. So maybe even unconsciously he created a controversial piece with more depth than what meets the eye. I got to give him credit for that.

Regardless, I think it's overrated and far from "amazing art" as described in the article. Generally speaking, I think people tend to give too much credit to any "work" or "craft" that uses unconventional materials. (Like making lamps from plastic carboys, just as an example)
 
Old 05-22-2013, 06:59 PM   #29
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No one can tell me that it took more artistic mastery to produce any Rothko painting that these excel "paintings". Not talking about psychological aspects or stylistically lending itself to a determined movement in order to evoke some emotion within the viewer, just the technical ability needed.

That being said I cant really have a problem with these excel pieces. Maybe they dont connect on an emotional level the sam way the painting below would, but even that connection is only based upon knowing the artists intentions and biased towards the emotion conveyed collectively by an entire style or movement (minimalism/abstract expressionism in this case.


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