Color washout in Quicktime-any codec

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Old 11 November 2013   #1
Color washout in Quicktime-any codec

Hey all

I've run into an issue where I've created a 3D animation using sRGB IEC61966-2.1 as the color profile, matching that in AE. Colors look great in AE. Exporting to Quicktime using None, Animation, Apple Pro Res (HQ) have all produced the same washed out coloration like I used to see in h.264. Please don't confuse this as an h.264 washout issue as it is not. There seems to be a gamma shift in quicktime that I can't seem to fix. I can even use Quicktime Pro to adjust the contrast and coloring to look more correct but when I save out and reopen, the colors are washed out again. I'm out of ideas. Any insight would be greatly appreciated. Attached are examples of what I'm seeing in AE compared to how it looks in Quicktime.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Quicktime-color.jpg (92.9 KB, 3 views)
File Type: jpg Color-in-AE.jpg (72.9 KB, 3 views)
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Old 11 November 2013   #2
Quicktime gamma shifting issues perhaps?

http://www.videocopilot.net/blog/20...me-gamma-shift/
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Old 11 November 2013   #3
That's for h.264. I don't have washed out issues with that. This issue is with any codec including None that comes into quicktime. I only see the washing out in Quicktime. I haven't opened the movies in another player, but I'm not seeing the issue normally in Quicktime.
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Old 11 November 2013   #4
I apologize, I implied that I was referring solely to H264 and MPEG by using that link; but I intended to discuss an more overall problem Apple has had with Gamma through all QT formats it seems. My bad for messing that up, sorry!

I will try and find a link or article to what I'm referring to; but in the meantime, just out of curiosity, what happens to your result when you apply this effect and then render?


Color-Correction->Levels
Gamma set to 0.822


Sorry if that fails to help, I might be talking out of hand again.

I will see what else I can dig up...

If you want, you could send me a single frame of the original footage and I can see if I can help troubleshoot. I enjoy finding solutions to AE's quirkiness.
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Old 11 November 2013   #5
Originally Posted by Iaenic: I apologize, I implied that I was referring solely to H264 and MPEG by using that link; but I intended to discuss an more overall problem Apple has had with Gamma through all QT formats it seems. My bad for messing that up, sorry!

I will try and find a link or article to what I'm referring to; but in the meantime, just out of curiosity, what happens to your result when you apply this effect and then render?


Color-Correction->Levels
Gamma set to 0.822


Sorry if that fails to help, I might be talking out of hand again.

I will see what else I can dig up...

If you want, you could send me a single frame of the original footage and I can see if I can help troubleshoot. I enjoy finding solutions to AE's quirkiness.


Thanks Iaenic! That does produce the result almost exactly as I would expect. It might be because I've been staring at it so long now, but it might be slightly lighter than the original footage. However, why do you have to do that to produce the correct result? What's happening? How did you come to that number?
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Old 11 November 2013   #6
Originally Posted by Troyan: Thanks Iaenic! That does produce the result almost exactly as I would expect. It might be because I've been staring at it so long now, but it might be slightly lighter than the original footage. However, why do you have to do that to produce the correct result? What's happening? How did you come to that number?


Awesome! Glad it's a step closer.

Basically the issue is that Apple (And Quicktime by extension) has had strange ways of handling display gamma. For reasons I'm sure I'm not qualified to get into, they used a different gamma curve. That results in you hearing terms like "Gamma 2.2", "Gamma 1.8" and of course, the magical number "0.822" to sorta mostly fix it in After Effects...somehow...

(This article might shed some light: http://www.larryjordan.biz/techniqu...gamma-settings/ )

Maybe someone more experienced like Mylenium or ToddKopriva will see this and link us to a better description of the mechanics behind it.
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Old 11 November 2013   #7
Originally Posted by Iaenic: Awesome! Glad it's a step closer.

Basically the issue is that Apple (And Quicktime by extension) has had strange ways of handling display gamma. For reasons I'm sure I'm not qualified to get into, they used a different gamma curve. That results in you hearing terms like "Gamma 2.2", "Gamma 1.8" and of course, the magical number "0.822" to sorta mostly fix it in After Effects...somehow...

(This article might shed some light: http://www.larryjordan.biz/techniqu...gamma-settings/ )

Maybe someone more experienced like Mylenium or ToddKopriva will see this and link us to a better description of the mechanics behind it.


Thank you for the article, Iaenic, that helped a lot. It's strange because I make animations and videos on almost a daily basis and I'm either not noticing or I'm not seeing the issue on everything. And when I send vids to my clients who are on PC's they never complain about color washouts. So, then, if I do this and it looks good on an Apple display, will it look darker, then, on a PC?
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Old 11 November 2013   #8
Unfortunately it's seemed pretty hit and miss for me too, so it's hard for me to point to the issue directly and say "this is the problem and why".
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Old 11 November 2013   #9
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