R.i.p., Xsi

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  03 March 2018
R.i.p., Xsi

Hiya.

Well...I guess that's that. I had a vbs error (primitives) when I tried to fire up XSI the other day. It's the educational version for 2015. Tried to reinstall and...greyed out. Looking at my Autodesk Account, I see I can install Maya and MAX...but XSI is gone. Searching the AD site and XSI doesn't show up anywhere anymore. I'm seriously bummed! :( I've been using Modo mostly for the last year or so, and still trying to grapple with Blender and Maya...but I could always fire up my educational version of XSI2015 if I wanted to feel like I could actually do something in 3d other than make a box with some extruded bits (basically, XSI was my "ego massager and empathetic shoulder").

I feel like crying. :( ...uh... so... anyone know where I can buy a copy of XSI 2015?
__________________
^_^

Paul L. Ming
 
  04 April 2018
its astonishing how many people still use Softimage since EOL.
I still use it 100% on all my works and will keep using it forever till it runs on any machine i have
sadly for you i dont think you can buy it anymore, maybe it'll get installed when you buy max or maya, have no clue.

good luck
 
  04 April 2018
I still have a few XSI discs boxes from 2007-2010 era. Xsi 5.11 is my oldest set.
__________________
AKA KC / Intuition
 
  04 April 2018
Hiya!

Yeah...I still don't know why AD doesn't just sell XSI "As Is...", where all the onus is on the customer (e.g., I give them money, they give me a licence...everything after that is up to me). I don't need support, refunds, updates, etc. Just let me buy the damn program! >:( Oh...wait. I thought of why. Because it would compete with Maya...STILL! I'm still ticked that AD killed it. If I ever win a hundred million dollars I'm gonna try and buy XSI. LOL!

I did find ONE site...but it's, hmm..."iffy"? Here:http://www.pcm.com/p/Autodesk-Graph...09~pdp.jahiife I got an email back after I emailed to make sure that it was LEGAL and that AD WOULD STILL AUTHORIZE IT. I told them I'd fork over my $4k right now. I got an email back that was nothing more than "Great! Call us and we can get you a better deal on multiple copies!"...with absolutely zero answers to my two Q's. I'm gonna email them back again...just to see. I'm also going to email AD, but I figure they'll just give me a stock "We don't support XSI. Here, buy Maya in stead!" (For the hundredth time, I don't f'ing WANT Maya!)

Now I'm depressed. Great. Time for a T3 with a Vodka chasser I think...

^_^

Paul L. Ming
__________________
^_^

Paul L. Ming
 
  2 Weeks Ago
Hiya!

Never got a definitive answer from anyone. Surprise!

It's almost like Autodesk wants everyone to forget how much "better" XSI was to Maya. I swear, the only reason they ditched XSI was to FORCE (or try to) everyone to 'migrate' to Maya. Still ticks me off. XSI should have went the way Blender did and have it get bought and put into the same sort of "open source" before AD got it's grubby hands on it.
__________________
^_^

Paul L. Ming
 
  4 Days Ago
Autodesk EDU licenses, afaik, usually only last for a 3 year term of operation. That might be why you're "greyed out" as you said. I've been led to believe that, once your 3 years are up, you can petition ADK for an extension of that EDU license period. Of course you have to still be eligible. Provided that your status as a student was legit and remains so, I would contact ADSK, explain your situation, and ask if they could extend you.

Beyond that, if they can't help you, it might just be time to bite the bullet and migrate to a different app. Besides, you might love XSI, but there's no future in a dead product. I'm always amazed when I see somebody clinging to an old favorite out of habit. CG is an "evolve or die" kind of career. You either keep or or get left behind. (There are still a surprising number of people clinging to the likes of Mirai, trueSpace, Realsoft, and even Power Animator. Wow!)

And you're right. They DID want to force people to migrate to Maya. There's a good reason for that though. ADSK had too many products in their roster and XSI was dead weight for them. Sales were sagging. Ditching XSI was a way for them to remain profitable. It's just business. I've been doing CG for 29 years and I can't tell you how many programs I've used and owned during that time period. Good or bad, products die all of the time. The sun will set on Maya one day too. Don't worry. Its time will come. Probably not before 3dsmax dies, but still.

There will come a point when ADSK has saturated the market, maxed out its potential subscriber base, and can't squeeze all that much more money out users. They'll once again be forced to rethink their strategy.

I wouldn't be shocked if, one day, the community effort behind open source became a real threat to their dominance. Open source apps are slowly becoming credible competition to expensive paid products. That would kinda bring things full circle, tbh. It was the rise of low cost mid-range 3d apps that originally forced big devs like Autodesk to lower their prices some 15 or so years ago.

There was a time (just last decade) when Maya cost $16k. At that time, it dropped down toe $7k for the full version and now it's less than half that annually. With open source on the rise and the global economy feeling the pinch, who knows what the future holds. ADSK might not be able to maintain this current pricing structure forever. (Not saying that they'd go free, fyi. Just saying that they'd have to adapt... again.)
__________________
DISCLAIMER: The views presented herein do not necessarily represent those of my brain.
 
  3 Days Ago
Hiya!

Yeah, I bet the EDU part is what was it. I had been using the EDU version just for fun and to keep it in my aging brain (Use it or lose it, right? ). *sigh* Maybe I'll just piece together an old computer, install W2k or even WinNT, slap my dongle on the back and go use my old Softimage|3D license (got it at an education price of about $4k, but got a 'free' upgrade to non-commercial by mistake by the guys I was dealing with during school (licensed SI dealer..."Light...something" I think was their name; out of Vancouver, BC, right next to Granville Island; they sent me a license and disks for XSI v1 at the very end of the school year because I had actually purchased it...hmmm... (I think I'm suffering "Softimage-Withdrawl-Symptoms" LOL!)

I've been focusing on MODO since version 10. Pretty decently versed in the modeling side, but only scratched the surface still with rigging/animation and the rest of it. Decent enough app, but not XSI. I'd LOVE to figure out Blender...but so far, after, uh, when did NaN own it still? Since then at any rate, I've been fiddling with it. It still confuzzles me. Makes no g-d sense. But, from what I see of Blender 2.8, that might change... *crosses fingers*.

I know my way around Maya, not an expert by any means. I learned it back in '99; I think it might have even been in Beta then still...the 3d school I was at got permission to use us as guinea pigs to see how 'newbs' found it; most in the class really liked it...I think me and two others preferred SI3D [as XSI wasn't out; we did get a sneak peak at it from our instructor who was a beta tester for it though, that was cool ]). Thing I liked most about Maya was the quick-space to min/max viewport and, yes, believe it or not, the PaintFX stuff where you could 'paint' foliage. Maya has become so effing BLOATED over the years though! Back when it was still Beta/v1, it was significantly less bloated...still crash'y though. Every now and then I buy a month or two of Maya to try and fiddle with it, do some tutorials, see if my older age has slid more towards a Maya mentality. It hasn't. Not much anyway.

So...it's been MODO + Substance + Houdini Indie + ZBrush + Keyshot, + the occasional dip into something else (Lightwave, Mirai, Silo, 3DCoat, Marvelous, etc). But XSI was my "relaxing no-stress 3d'ing session". :( You never know though, maybe I can buy a computer with a full license of XSI on it...and then hope the HD never crashes!
__________________
^_^

Paul L. Ming
 
  2 Days Ago
deleted by me
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DISCLAIMER: The views presented herein do not necessarily represent those of my brain.

Last edited by cookepuss : 1 Day Ago at 05:21 PM. Reason: too long winded. :)
 
  2 Days Ago
OT: You got me thinking about software origins. I found this cool pic of and article on Blender's ancient ancestor "Traces" which on Ton Roosendaal developed for the Amiga back in 1987. Neat stuff. You can easily see how we got from there to Blender.

http://zgodzinski.com/blender-prehistory/
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DISCLAIMER: The views presented herein do not necessarily represent those of my brain.
 
  1 Day Ago
Hiya!

LOL! Yeah, on the list of stuff you mentioned (in email), I think I check off about 80% of the ones you did. When all is said and done, it boils down to "what software fits my style and lets me work as carefree as I want"? This changes over time, as is normal. Currently, MODO for me. Although every time I watch "Arrimus 3d" on YouTube I'm reminded of my brief two-year long fling with 3DS MAX. Man...3DSM in the hands of a pro user is, well, it's just so beautiful to watch how smoothly he handles one task to the next. Amazing! There was an XSI guy, a Japanese bloke I can't remember, who had the same sort of "natural flow" watching him model in it.

I have high-hopes for Blender 2.8 as do many others. I'd LOVE to get back into C4D, but Maxon just charges too effing much! Their "upgrades" are annoyingly limited (most of the time), and for too much monetary investment. The Lightwave3D Group don't know what they are doing...well, they might, but the people in charge of marketing and communication are about as useful as an arrow to the knee. (and yeah, I *still* think they made a HUGE mistake dropping LWCore, of which I was an early adopter when it was first announced). Lightwave is a love/hate...love a LOT about it...and hate just as much.

Anyway...yeah, MODO for now. My MODO year license expires in mid December. Guess I'll see if I'm switching to Blender 2.8 at that point...

PS: "Santa, if you are listening, I want a full commercial version of Softimage XSI 2015. Thanks!" (probably the only way I'll ever get a new license...LOL!)

^_^

Paul L. Ming
__________________
^_^

Paul L. Ming
 
  1 Day Ago
Quote: Yeah, on the list of stuff you mentioned (in email),

Sorry for the deleted post. I was just ranting like a lunatic; Late night post. I was hoping to not subject you to that. Oops! At least I gave you something to read. LOL

Here's another rant coming your way.

Quote: Man...3DSM in the hands of a pro user is, well, it's just so beautiful to watch how smoothly he handles one task to the next. Amazing!

That's the thing though. In the right hands, a hammer is a tool and can be used to create. In the wrong hands, it can only be used to destroy. CG apps are just tools. No one app will make you a better artist. Only time and lots of hard work will do that.

I can guarantee you that, unless they're some damn artistic prodigy, every artist you admire and worship has their temple built on a mountain of far more terrible works than the ones for which they're most remembered. To put it another way, every successful crop is grown from dirt, manure, and a few seeds.

A 3D app is just a tool. Pick your poison, whatever suits you the best, and just push through. Tutorials. Videos. Little practice exercises. Hell. Even go out and find a competition or weekly challenge to enter. It's not about the winning. It's about pushing yourself. I can't tell you how many inexperienced artists have grown massively overnight thanks to the push of a comp. That sort of thing can motivate you in the same way that school might. It's all about structure and looming deadlines.

Quote: I have high-hopes for Blender 2.8 as do many others. I'd LOVE to get back into C4D, but Maxon just charges too effing much! Their "upgrades" are annoyingly limited (most of the time), and for too much monetary investment.

You know what it is? They want people on a MSA, which is their service agreement. They claim that it's not a subscription, but it kinda feels like one.

MAXON wants you to buy the full app and the annual MSA addon. Once you're on a MSA, they want you to keep up with it to get those cheap upgrades. It does make sense in the long run, but the initial outlay is a b***h. Stray from the path by missing your annual MSA and you're screwed. Damn near back to square one when it comes to ponying up for the next version.

They make it so that you have to stay on the MSA path for the cheapest upgrade price. I get that. I do. It's just the sort of thing that only makes sense to studios and career freelancers. If you're a hobbyist or only take on the occasional freelance assignment then it might be prohibitively expensive.

I don't like subscriptions. I don't. Software as a service bites. Let me tell you why.

Back in ye olden days, you would buy an app - usually on floppy or even tape. You'd take it home, install it, and it'd be yours forever. Buy. Own. Keep.

Somewhere along the way, thanks to piracy, some genius came up with the idea to copy protect this stuff. Serial numbers. Dongles. Machine ID locks. That sort of thing. Okay. I could deal with that. I could still take cuddle up with my boxed copy at night. It was still mine forever or until the PC or dongle died out. Buy. Own. Keep.

Pirates got more aggressive and developers followed suit. To protect their interests, the devs now required you to activate your license online. Deactivate it when you moved the app to another machine. (If you were lucky then they didn't limit you to how many times you could do this.) It was still okay though. You could still cuddle up with the box at night, although you'd be a weirdo to so so. The app was still yours. Buy. Own. Keep.

Now comes along that evil prick called Mr. Subscription. Damn him.

The developers are now quick (and right) to point out, "Wait a second, guy. We're not actually selling you software. We're LICENSING it to you. You're not buying the software. No. We still own that. We're just selling you a limited right to use it. We can terminate that right at any time and for any reason, good or bad. It's always been that way. You just didn't notice."

Because pirates had even figured out how to bypass online activation, the devs would lower the prices, but make you pay forever. They now have complete control over who uses their app, for how long, and under what terms. No more buying. No more owning. No more keeping.

Ultimately, this is fine if you're running a studio or have an employer who pays for your license. In the former case, it's justifiable overhead. The income earned outweighs the annual expense. In the latter case, who cares what it costs? Somebody else is footing the bill.

HOWEVER, if you're a hobbyist or a low volume freelancer, you're left out in the cold. You're kinda screwed. If you're only a dabbler and the developers don't offer a month to month option then you're out of luck. No way to learn the app unless you're a matriculating student or they also offer an indie version. Even if they do offer a monthly rate, well, you still might be screwed. Asking a hobbyist to pay nearly $200 each month (or more) when they already have recurring bills is unreasonable.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not going to justify piracy. It's illegal, drives up prices, puts people out of work, and potentially deprives companies of sales. However, I can understand how some hobbyists or very poor artists living in other nations might be driven to do something so desperate. Developers, in trying to combat piracy, might actually be making it worse to a certain degree. (That's a topic for another thread though.)

My point? Software as a service is bad. A 3D program is a tool. It should be treated no differently than a physical hammer in your toolbox or the car in your garage. Treating it like a utility such as water or electric hurts everybody. It also wrongly shifts the balance of power. My buying power should give me more rights, not fewer. Developers are penalizing paying customers for the misdeeds of the thieves. Different audience. Same punishment.

Just shut up, take my money, give my my software, and go away until I need support or an upgrade. Sounds crass, but that's what I really want. Sadly, few developers agree with me. Gotta milk that cash cow.

Quote: The Lightwave3D Group don't know what they are doing

They're running scared, imo. They once had a fairly decent foothold in the TV and film industry, but CORE was such a bungled effort that they lost ground. On top of that, key team members left NewTek to create MODO - which is why there are a number of noteworthy similarities. It's never easy to recover when you lose people instrumental to your success.

NewTek lowering the price of LW reeks of desperation. It's desperate bid to bring in new customers and rebuild a fanbase. Unfortunately, lowering the price as they have puts LW squarely in a different tier of apps. It's priced right up their with other mid-range apps.

Whether that's justified or not is the topic for another thread, but it DOES change how the app is perceived by the public at large. I put two identical looking cars on a lot. One costs $75,000. The other costs $10. Your first question will invariably be, "What's wrong with the $10 car?" That's where your mind will immediately wander.

LightWave can be the most powerful app ever, but people's perception of it changes the moment the price drops. There's a psychology to pricing and perceived value. This is the very same problem that Blender faces.

Blender is an amazing app and far more robust than any free app has a right to be. It is now competitive in a way that it never was in the past. Objectively, it's right up there with the "big boys." However, because it's open source and costs nothing, most people who've never used it ask, "What's wrong with it?" Other programs have shortcomings and flaws too.

Defying all logic, because those apps cost more - a lot more in some cases - end users are far less prone to being nitpicky. They'll look at the higher price as a measure of greater value and accept those flaws even if its begrudgingly. I've seen non-Blender users pick at its problems with such gusto that you'd think that their alternative app of choice is flawless perfection. LOL

LightWwave costing what it does now hurts its overall public perception. Costs less? Must be worth less.

NewTek also isn't doing themselves any favors by sticking with the split design. They waited 3 years between v2015 and v2018 (duh). In that time, they could have something radical. 36 months, in the hands of motivated developers, might as well be an eternity. NewTek could have finally integrated Modeler and Layout. Tack on the time wasted on CORE and the defense for not integrating just keeps on getting weaker - especially in light of lagging sales.

NewTek has made it clear that integration isn't off the table and probably coming down the line, but not in the immediate future. When it does come, will there even be any users left? I wonder.

FWIW, I do own legit licenses to v2015 and v2018. However, I don't love the split design. It takes me out of the moment. What I do like is the old school interface. I like being able to see the text buttons. Deciphering goofy icons can sometimes be a pita, especially if they aren't particularly well designed and look too much like others. That circa 1995 look appeals to me greatly. That's why I can understand your love for XSI. The UI is direct and to the point.

LightWave's days are numbered, imo. If they make it past 2 more major releases then I'd be shocked. pmG MessiahStudio saw its price drop radically some years ago in a desperate bid to attract new users and its been near zombieware ever since. Still alive, but against all odds. Most users have moved on. LightWave is probably headed that way.

Quote: Anyway...yeah, MODO for now. My MODO year license expires in mid December. Guess I'll see if I'm switching to Blender 2.8 at that point...

I've got a v11 Indie license to MODO just collecting dust on my Steam account. I could deal with the limitations, but the app is still kinda buggy. Blender has consistently been more solid for me.

And, yeah, try out Blender 2.8 when it does go gold. The only thing that it'll cost you is time. I've been screwing around with it for some time now and it's easily their most newbie friendly release yet. Long time users will probably have something to gripe about, but I'm not in that camp. I think that the new GUI is a fine balance between legacy and modern. I can't wait until it's stable.

Quote: PS: "Santa, if you are listening, I want a full commercial version of Softimage XSI 2015. Thanks!"

Nope. Sorry. My last name actually IS Santa and I don't have jacksh** for ya. (Seriously. My last name is Santa. Makes my life hell every Christmas though. Imagine growing up with the name Rob Santa. LOL )
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DISCLAIMER: The views presented herein do not necessarily represent those of my brain.

Last edited by cookepuss : 1 Day Ago at 06:13 AM.
 
  1 Day Ago
Hiya!

hehe...no worries. Rant away, fellow old coot (I can't believe I'm going to be half a century next year...not complaining...I plan on going to 111 years, so I'm not even half way there yet! ).

I'm 100% with you on the "tool doesn't make the artist". But there is something to be said for using a power jack-hammer to break concrete over a butter knife. For me, Softimage/XSI has been the most "comfortable" 3D tool for me. The names of tools make sense to me, the layout, the hotkeys, and pretty much everything else. I like Lightwave's interface, overall, but yeah, the Layout/Modeler/Hub set up can be quite annoying; mostly for doing quick texture checks, renders and that sort of thing. My biggest bugaboo with LW is how some tools make absolutely zero sense on how to use them...they are almost "anti-intuitively-named and located". It took me...and I shit you not... TWO YEARS to find the tool that would round out a series of vertices around an n-gon. Basically, I was looking for a "circlify" type tool; It's under Modify --> Translate --> More --> Untangle. Yes, it's called "untangle". o_O Who in the heck figured that "untangle" is a good name for something that makes an ngon into a circle? I have the same problem with Blender, but I forgive Blender because they aren't trying to charge me hundreds and hundreds of dollars. Oh, and did I mention that my LW 2018v0.3, as of a month or two ago, just "decided" to revert to Discovery Mode? For no reason? Just because? And no matter WHAT I do, nobody can figure out why...nobody on the forums and nobody at LW3DGroup. My license key just doesn't work. I drag n' drop, it says "Ok, now restart"...and it restarts in Discovery Mode. Hence, why I haven't touched LW in a while. >:(

I'm also sick to death of 'subscriptions'. That's why I dropped Adobe Photoshop back when it became CS2 (? I think that was around the time they were trying to switch over). Quite happy with Affinity (Photo and Design; waiting on their publishing program next). If I have to use a subscription (aka, MODO & Substance, for example) I test for a couple months and if it all seems decent enough, I go for a year. One year. Then I re-evaluate. If that year had the company innovating, squishing bugs and improving what they have...then I'll go for another 6 mo or 1 yr license. If not...I move to something else. Maybe try something new, or maybe go back to a previous program.

Anyway, I'm patient and will happily shoot myself in the foot if it means not giving up my principles. I was a night auditor for about a decade at a major hotel where I live (LOVED that job! 11pm to 7am...quiet'ish...just...nice...but I'm a night guy like many other artists, so it fit). A guy tried to hold me up "Give me the money. I have a gun", indicating something in his jacket pocket. My principles were challenged. My response? "No". The look on his face was...interesting. Anger, confusion, and panic. "I'll shoot you! Give it to me NOW! I'm not f'king around!".... "...hmmm.... No". At this point he was starting to sweat. Another one or two demands and threats, each met with "No" from me (remember the car-commandeering scene from So I Married An Axe Murderer?...yeah, kinda like that). I told him, eventually, "Take the gun out, put it on the counter. Show me. Prove it. Otherwise...No. And I'm calling the police. Choose". ...he elected to sit down in the lobby and wait for the police to come and arrest him. LOL! Ahhh...criminals. Not the sharpest sticks in the bucket, are they?
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Paul L. Ming
 
  1 Day Ago
Quote: Who in the heck figured that "untangle" is a good name for something that makes an ngon into a circle?

I guess that it must have happened when somebody was looking for a solution to deal with non-manifold polygons. That kinda makes sense. Ngons are the devil. Unlike triangles whose vertices are always coplanar or quads that mostly only have to worry about going saddle or bowtie shaped, pretty much anything and everything can go wrong with a ngon. When you're trying to preserve convexity then "untangle" is as an appropriate term for the function as any.

Quote: My license key just doesn't work. I drag n' drop, it says "Ok, now restart"...and it restarts in Discovery Mode. Hence, why I haven't touched LW in a while. >:(

Sounds silly to ask. However, have you just tried re-downloading and/or copying the license file directly into the directory? Drag-n-drop might be failing you or the license file itself could be corrupt.

Quote: 'm also sick to death of 'subscriptions'. That's why I dropped Adobe Photoshop

I've recently moved to an all open source pipeline and have found that GIMP, along with a number of free scripts and plugins, makes for a solid alternative. You can even customize the layout and shortcuts so that it more or less feels PS-like. Paired with Krita, it packs a nice one two 2D punch.

I keep my Adobe Suite subscription active, but mostly out of habit. I'm not too worried about the cost since my sister in-law works there. They have this friends/family discount that lets me get it for something like $60/yr instead of $600/yr.

Quote: Ahhh...criminals. Not the sharpest sticks in the bucket, are they?

No. No. They are not. I'm a New Yorker. Somebody literally tried to mug me for my McDonalds takeout a few years back. I gave him the ole stink eye and literally let him beat himself up. He tried to hit me upside my head. The world suddenly went into slo-mo. I dodged twice and he hit each one of his fists into the wall behind me. I think that he might've broken something. Served him right. He just ran off after that. Left him practically crying and his gangta wannabe friends across the street laughing at him.

I wasn't afraid of him anyway though. At 5'7", I'm not exactly tall, but I'm decently strong . 225 bench press & 335 free weight squat. Used to do way more than that when I was younger and wrestled and fenced in high school.

You played it smart and kept your job. Me? I come from a family with lots of cops and military types. I probably would've kicked the sh** out of him and squashed him like a bug.
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